murgaLua

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murgaLua

Kenneth LO
A link in the wiki pointed me to http://www.murga.org/devPages/murgaLua/index.html, the work of John Murga.  In less than 500k, it is static link of  Lua 5.1, lsqlite, Luasocket, tinyXML and FLTK 1.1.x.  Almost everything you'll need for normal use.  No other .dll or .so is needed.  No installation required.

I hope the author is on the list as he didn't leave a contact.  My suggestion is to upgrade it to SQLite3.  Tiago Dionizio's lsqlite3 beta works (except create_aggregate, probably a problem with Lua5 itself) and SQLite3 is really exciting ( e.g. full text search).  FLTK's table widget will also be useful.  It may add another 30k to the executable but will surely worth it.

BTW the windows executable has a bug.  When the directory file selection is cancelled , it crashed.  I haven't tested on Linux yet because the bundled executable can't run on my FC4 and Ubuntu. 

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Re: murgaLua

Ralph Hempel
> A link in the wiki pointed me to
> http://www.murga.org/devPages/murgaLua/index.html, the work of John Murga.
> In less than 500k, it is static link of  Lua 5.1, lsqlite, Luasocket,
> tinyXML and FLTK 1.1.x.  Almost everything you'll need for normal use.  No
> other .dll or .so is needed.  No installation required.

John Murga is also known for his work with Puppy Linux, so he seems
pretty bent on getting as much stuff as possible into a small space.

<http://www.murga.org/>

He lists his email on that page as

john <AT> murga <DOT> org

Ralph



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RE: murgaLua

Grellier, Thierry
Well I've looked at it a little and I would appreciate a separate
package for the fltk put in luaforge, although making it is very easy to
do from the code.

When using the latest fltk version, I also noticed that generated code
from fluid is slightly different, so I've modified a little the
conversion script, with adding the following substitution rule:

    # it now generates comments, they could be discarded, but...
    sub(/\/\//, "--", $currentLine)

I think this could be good for the community to have at least one GUI
maintained consistently and extensively across time.

I was not convinced with IUP, also because of its slow pace maintenance
always shifting. Well I understand resources are now limited, but then
wouldn't it be more efficient not to maintain IUP and commit to a
wrapper of an existing library like fltk or gtk,m that maybe suits to
requirements of most lua users? 

I guess this is not taboo question because
http://www.tecgraf.puc-io.br/iup/ has a comparing section that states :
"Why to still maintain IUP if today we have so many other popular
toolkits?
This is a question we always ask to ourselves before going on for
another year."
So this is enough to introduce this as an unsecured choice... Reading
more about conclusion
"Conclusions
>From the selected toolkits using the defined approach we can eliminate
some toolkits:

The gray ones are not updated anymore or the development is very slow or
needs a better organization.

FOX has a great look but the license can be restrictive in some cases. 

FLTK promises a new version with a better look, but until then it does
not have a pretty good look. The FLTK documentation also does not help.

GTK+ can be used as a replacement for Motif, but not as a "portable"
toolkit since is was target for X-Windows. Nowadays GTK 2 is a great
free C toolkit. But some predefined dialogs could be the native ones,
like the File Selection.

Qt has several license limitations, although is a very stable and
powerful toolkit. Qt can be also used as a replacement for Motif.

The "best" free solution that we choose would be wxWidgets because of
the native controls and its portability. But since version 2, GTK+ is a
very strong option because it is in C and had its visual improved.

It is very hard to compare IUP with wxWidgets and Qt since they are much
more than an Interface Toolkit. They are complete development platform
that includes several secondary libraries. In IUP we focus only in
Graphical User Interface."

Besides wxWidget (maybe a bit huge...) Others are maintained per project
base and with subset needed by the project so hardly mature.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:51 AM
To: Lua list
Cc: Lua list
Subject: Re: murgaLua

> A link in the wiki pointed me to
> http://www.murga.org/devPages/murgaLua/index.html, the work of John
Murga.
> In less than 500k, it is static link of  Lua 5.1, lsqlite, Luasocket,
> tinyXML and FLTK 1.1.x.  Almost everything you'll need for normal use.
No
> other .dll or .so is needed.  No installation required.

John Murga is also known for his work with Puppy Linux, so he seems
pretty bent on getting as much stuff as possible into a small space.

<http://www.murga.org/>

He lists his email on that page as

john <AT> murga <DOT> org

Ralph




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Re: murgaLua

Hakki Dogusan
Hi,

Grellier, Thierry wrote:
Well I've looked at it a little and I would appreciate a separate
package for the fltk put in luaforge, although making it is very easy to
do from the code.

When using the latest fltk version, I also noticed that generated code
from fluid is slightly different, so I've modified a little the
conversion script, with adding the following substitution rule:

    # it now generates comments, they could be discarded, but...
    sub(/\/\//, "--", $currentLine)

I think this could be good for the community to have at least one GUI
maintained consistently and extensively across time.


Just FYI, wxLua is maintained actively :)
We just don't see it in http://wxlua.sf.net web site...

I was not convinced with IUP, also because of its slow pace maintenance
always shifting. Well I understand resources are now limited, but then
wouldn't it be more efficient not to maintain IUP and commit to a
wrapper of an existing library like fltk or gtk,m that maybe suits to
requirements of most lua users?
I guess this is not taboo question because
http://www.tecgraf.puc-io.br/iup/ has a comparing section that states :
"Why to still maintain IUP if today we have so many other popular
toolkits?
This is a question we always ask to ourselves before going on for
another year."

As a developer, I'm always asking these questions -about technologies
I'm using/generating- to myself. Above sentence is similar, I think?

So this is enough to introduce this as an unsecured choice...
> Reading more about conclusion
"Conclusions
>From the selected toolkits using the defined approach we can eliminate
some toolkits:

The gray ones are not updated anymore or the development is very slow or
needs a better organization.

FOX has a great look but the license can be restrictive in some cases.
FLTK promises a new version with a better look, but until then it does
not have a pretty good look. The FLTK documentation also does not help.

GTK+ can be used as a replacement for Motif, but not as a "portable"
toolkit since is was target for X-Windows. Nowadays GTK 2 is a great
free C toolkit. But some predefined dialogs could be the native ones,
like the File Selection.

Qt has several license limitations, although is a very stable and
powerful toolkit. Qt can be also used as a replacement for Motif.

The "best" free solution that we choose would be wxWidgets because of
the native controls and its portability. But since version 2, GTK+ is a
very strong option because it is in C and had its visual improved.

It is very hard to compare IUP with wxWidgets and Qt since they are much
more than an Interface Toolkit. They are complete development platform
that includes several secondary libraries. In IUP we focus only in
Graphical User Interface."

Besides wxWidget (maybe a bit huge...) Others are maintained per project
base and with subset needed by the project so hardly mature.


I compiled wx & wxLua as a lua module in a single dll (~3Mb) size.
Still a little big in size. But I'm accepting it as that is the price of having a framework :)


--
Regards,
Hakki Dogusan






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Re: murgaLua

Alex Queiroz
In reply to this post by Grellier, Thierry
Hallo,

On 12/13/06, Grellier, Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote:

Besides wxWidget (maybe a bit huge...) Others are maintained per project
base and with subset needed by the project so hardly mature.


    While searching for a BSD-licensed, native-controls toolkit I
came across Claro Graphics[1]. It looked too good to be true: C,
native, lean, scripting languages-friendly. Unfortunately it seems the
project is dying even before releasing a first version. :-(

[1] - http://www.clarographics.org/

--
-alex
http://www.ventonegro.org/

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Re: murgaLua

Zed A. Shaw
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:43:16 -0200
"Alex Queiroz" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hallo,
> 
> On 12/13/06, Grellier, Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Besides wxWidget (maybe a bit huge...) Others are maintained per project
> > base and with subset needed by the project so hardly mature.
> >
> 
>      While searching for a BSD-licensed, native-controls toolkit I
> came across Claro Graphics[1]. It looked too good to be true: C,
> native, lean, scripting languages-friendly. Unfortunately it seems the
> project is dying even before releasing a first version. :-(
> 
> [1] - http://www.clarographics.org/

Actually, I worked on the layout engine and bunch of the GTK components in Claro.  My intention was like your's, but yeah they took it in a really different direction.

I've been needing a GUI lib recently, and really thinking I'd resurrect claro with a fork to do what I wanted originally.  Only problem is I couldn't maintain the windows or OSX components.

-- 
Zed A. Shaw, MUDCRAP-CE Master Black Belt Sifu
http://www.zedshaw.com/
http://www.awprofessional.com/title/0321483502 -- The Mongrel Book
http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/
http://www.lingr.com/room/3yXhqKbfPy8 -- Come get help.

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Re: murgaLua

Ganesh Gunasegaran
Hi Zed,

Go ahead and fork it. I will lend a hand on maintaining Windows and Linux components. I am sure there will be volunteers to maintain the Mac OSX version.

I am currently building Claro on windows and linux to analyze its current state. Looks really promising!

Cheers,
GG

On 12/13/06, Zed A. Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:43:16 -0200
"Alex Queiroz" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hallo,
>
> On 12/13/06, Grellier, Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Besides wxWidget (maybe a bit huge...) Others are maintained per project
> > base and with subset needed by the project so hardly mature.
> >
>
>      While searching for a BSD-licensed, native-controls toolkit I
> came across Claro Graphics[1]. It looked too good to be true: C,
> native, lean, scripting languages-friendly. Unfortunately it seems the
> project is dying even before releasing a first version. :-(
>
> [1] - http://www.clarographics.org/

Actually, I worked on the layout engine and bunch of the GTK components in Claro.  My intention was like your's, but yeah they took it in a really different direction.

I've been needing a GUI lib recently, and really thinking I'd resurrect claro with a fork to do what I wanted originally.  Only problem is I couldn't maintain the windows or OSX components.

--
Zed A. Shaw, MUDCRAP-CE Master Black Belt Sifu
http://www.zedshaw.com/
http://www.awprofessional.com/title/0321483502 -- The Mongrel Book
http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/
http://www.lingr.com/room/3yXhqKbfPy8 -- Come get help.

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Re: murgaLua

Alex Queiroz
Hallo,

On 12/13/06, Ganesh Gunasegaran <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am currently building Claro on windows and linux to analyze its current
state. Looks really promising!


    How did you get the code? SVN seems broken.
Cheers,

--
-alex
http://www.ventonegro.org/

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Re: murgaLua

Ganesh Gunasegaran
Hey,

Not sure

svn checkout http://svn.atheme.org/claro

gg@imayam:~/work/claro$ make
   CC    block.c              -> block.o            
   CC    claro.c               -> claro.o            
   CC    list.c               -> list.o             
   CC    log.c                -> log.o              
   CC    memory.c             -> memory.o           
   CC    object.c             -> object.o           
   CC    object_map.c         -> object_map.o       
   CC    oscompat.c           -> oscompat.o         
   CC    string.c             -> string.o            
   CC    store.c              -> store.o            
 LINK    libclaro-base.a    
 LINK    libclaro-base.so

I am trying to compile the examples now...

Cheers,
GG

On 12/13/06, Alex Queiroz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hallo,

On 12/13/06, Ganesh Gunasegaran <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am currently building Claro on windows and linux to analyze its current
> state. Looks really promising!
>

     How did you get the code? SVN seems broken.
Cheers,

--
-alex
http://www.ventonegro.org/

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Re: murgaLua

Zed A. Shaw
In reply to this post by Ganesh Gunasegaran
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:17:50 +0530
"Ganesh Gunasegaran" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Zed,
> 
> Go ahead and fork it. I will lend a hand on maintaining Windows and Linux
> components. I am sure there will be volunteers to maintain the Mac OSX
> version.
> 
> I am currently building Claro on windows and linux to analyze its current
> state. Looks really promising!

Ok, I'll clean up the build and rip out all the non-gui stuff they added to simplify things.  Once I get that working I'll need a place to host it.  It's a decent C GUI lib, but if anyone has suggestions about a good OSS project host let me know.  It could be LuaForge, but suggestions welcome.

-- 
Zed A. Shaw, MUDCRAP-CE Master Black Belt Sifu
http://www.zedshaw.com/
http://www.awprofessional.com/title/0321483502 -- The Mongrel Book
http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/
http://www.lingr.com/room/3yXhqKbfPy8 -- Come get help.

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Re: murgaLua

Alex Queiroz
Hallo,

On 12/13/06, Zed A. Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ok, I'll clean up the build and rip out all the non-gui stuff they added to simplify things.  Once I get that working I'll need a place to host it.  It's a decent C GUI lib, but if anyone has suggestions about a good OSS project host let me know.  It could be LuaForge, but suggestions welcome.


    Hmm, LuaForge? Does it imply you want to make it Lua-only?

--
-alex
http://www.ventonegro.org/

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Re: murgaLua

Kenneth LO
In reply to this post by Zed A. Shaw
On 12/14/06, Zed A. Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ok, I'll clean up the build and rip out all the non-gui stuff they added to simplify things.  Once I get that working I'll need a place to host it.  It's a decent C GUI lib, but if anyone has suggestions about a good OSS project host let me know.  It could be LuaForge, but suggestions welcome.

Very nice GUI lib indeed.  If there is a wish list could a table widget be made?  A bunch of textboxes would not help because it'll be too complex to handle all the layouts and events at the scripting level.
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Re: murgaLua

Ganesh Gunasegaran
In reply to this post by Zed A. Shaw
Excellent,

Regarding project hosting, how about Berlios or Google code hosting? For some reason I don't like sourceforge.

Cheers,
GG

On 12/14/06, Zed A. Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:17:50 +0530
"Ganesh Gunasegaran" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Zed,
>
> Go ahead and fork it. I will lend a hand on maintaining Windows and Linux
> components. I am sure there will be volunteers to maintain the Mac OSX
> version.
>
> I am currently building Claro on windows and linux to analyze its current
> state. Looks really promising!

Ok, I'll clean up the build and rip out all the non-gui stuff they added to simplify things.  Once I get that working I'll need a place to host it.  It's a decent C GUI lib, but if anyone has suggestions about a good OSS project host let me know.  It could be LuaForge, but suggestions welcome.

--
Zed A. Shaw, MUDCRAP-CE Master Black Belt Sifu
http://www.zedshaw.com/
http://www.awprofessional.com/title/0321483502 -- The Mongrel Book
http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/
http://www.lingr.com/room/3yXhqKbfPy8 -- Come get help.

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Re: murgaLua

Philippe Lhoste
In reply to this post by Alex Queiroz
Alex Queiroz a écrit :
Besides wxWidget (maybe a bit huge...) Others are maintained per project
base and with subset needed by the project so hardly mature.

    While searching for a BSD-licensed, native-controls toolkit I
came across Claro Graphics[1]. It looked too good to be true: C,
native, lean, scripting languages-friendly. Unfortunately it seems the
project is dying even before releasing a first version. :-(

[1] - http://www.clarographics.org/

Yes, I saw it, they even planned a Lua binding...

Their layout expression language is interesting, but seems limited to row description, less flexible than the Java TableLayout layout manager, for example. <https://tablelayout.dev.java.net/>

How did you saw it is dying?

--
Philippe Lhoste
--  (near) Paris -- France
--  http://Phi.Lho.free.fr
--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --


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Re: murgaLua

Alex Queiroz
Hallo,

On 12/14/06, Philippe Lhoste <[hidden email]> wrote:

How did you saw it is dying?


    I tried to get a SVN working copy but it looked like the host was
down. Now I know it was my mistake.

--
-alex
http://www.ventonegro.org/

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RIP GUIs

Asko Kauppi
In reply to this post by Philippe Lhoste

Other GUI toolkits I've noticed dying with great promises:

- aedGUI    http://aedgui.sourceforge.net/
- ParaGUI   http://www.paragui.org/

Via Googling on +aedGui +ParaGUI gave me some "new" candidates:

- GiGi http://www.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl/2005-December/071742.html - Agar http://www.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl/2006-June/074797.html

Agar actually looks alive.

Personally, I will be going for Cairo as to the GUI To Rule Them All, but that will be in the fuzzy future. :)


On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:27:41 +0100
 Philippe Lhoste <[hidden email]> wrote:
Alex Queiroz a écrit :
Besides wxWidget (maybe a bit huge...) Others are maintained per project base and with subset needed by the project so hardly mature.

While searching for a BSD-licensed, native-controls toolkit I came across Claro Graphics[1]. It looked too good to be true: C, native, lean, scripting languages-friendly. Unfortunately it seems the project is dying even before releasing a first version. :-(

[1] - http://www.clarographics.org/

Yes, I saw it, they even planned a Lua binding...

Their layout expression language is interesting, but seems limited to row description, less flexible than the Java TableLayout layout manager, for example. <https://tablelayout.dev.java.net/>

How did you saw it is dying?

--
Philippe Lhoste
--  (near) Paris -- France
--  http://Phi.Lho.free.fr
--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --



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Re: murgaLua

Philippe Lhoste
In reply to this post by Alex Queiroz
Alex Queiroz a écrit :
How did you saw it is dying?

    I tried to get a SVN working copy but it looked like the host was
down. Now I know it was my mistake.

OK. I asked because the site has no news, no date, etc.
I am not fan of projects were source code is accessible only as CVS, SVN or some other SCM software. On Unix, chances are that you have the relevant program handy, but on Windows, you have to track it down and install it...
That's why I like Zip (or tgz, etc.) snapshots...

Of course, as long as the source code is available, an open source project is never dead, at worse dormant, waiting for somebody else to take over...

--
Philippe Lhoste
--  (near) Paris -- France
--  http://Phi.Lho.free.fr
--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --


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Re: RIP GUIs

Alex Queiroz
In reply to this post by Asko Kauppi
Hallo,

On 12/14/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Agar actually looks alive.

Personally, I will be going for Cairo as to the GUI To
Rule Them All, but that will be in the fuzzy future. :)


    They are somewhat different from a common GUI toolkit. Cairo is
just a drawing library, which GTK+, for instance, uses to draw its
widgets. Agar has widgets, but draws them on an image or framebuffer,
it does not create windows in the usual sense.

--
-alex
http://www.ventonegro.org/

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Re: RIP GUIs

Asko Kauppi

Cairo can be used as the 'only' graphics system, only no-one has done so yet. One currently needs SDL, Gtk+ or something to bind keyboard & mouse into the picture, but i.e. SDL + Cairo with vector based widget library would seem a very 100% Cairo only GUI.

Application-wise, it would all be done in Lua. This concept is just a concept, and will demand a serious amount of work to be pulled through. Properly done, it could be 'the' thing to get Lua recognized more thoroughly in the industry. I'm still waiting for the job position, where people would actually have heard of the language before I open my mouth! ;)

The closest I've seen the concept presented anywhere is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy user interface (in the movie). That one was done in Flash:

http://hitchhikers.movies.go.com/
take --> Characters -> Guide -> Don't Panic

-asko

(this is becoming a bit out of Lua, so let's tune it down or reply privately?)


Alex Queiroz kirjoitti 14.12.2006 kello 16.14:

Hallo,

On 12/14/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Agar actually looks alive.

Personally, I will be going for Cairo as to the GUI To
Rule Them All, but that will be in the fuzzy future. :)


    They are somewhat different from a common GUI toolkit. Cairo is
just a drawing library, which GTK+, for instance, uses to draw its
widgets. Agar has widgets, but draws them on an image or framebuffer,
it does not create windows in the usual sense.

--
-alex
http://www.ventonegro.org/


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Re: murgaLua

Zed A. Shaw
In reply to this post by Philippe Lhoste
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:27:41 +0100
Philippe Lhoste <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alex Queiroz a écrit :
> >> Besides wxWidget (maybe a bit huge...) Others are maintained per project
> >> base and with subset needed by the project so hardly mature.
> > 
> >     While searching for a BSD-licensed, native-controls toolkit I
> > came across Claro Graphics[1]. It looked too good to be true: C,
> > native, lean, scripting languages-friendly. Unfortunately it seems the
> > project is dying even before releasing a first version. :-(
> > 
> > [1] - http://www.clarographics.org/
> 
> Yes, I saw it, they even planned a Lua binding...
> 
> Their layout expression language is interesting, but seems limited to 
> row description, less flexible than the Java TableLayout layout manager, 
> for example. <https://tablelayout.dev.java.net/>
> 
> How did you saw it is dying?

Philippe, LEL actually can handle any layout since you can nest LEL expressions recursively.  You can define multiple row/column layouts, expansion criteria, and even repetition.  It's basically a regex for layout.

I'm in the process of cleaning up the code, stripping down the build, and then I'll have it moved someplace so people can get in and help with a Lua binding.  I'll let everyone know when it's up.

-- 
Zed A. Shaw, MUDCRAP-CE Master Black Belt Sifu
http://www.zedshaw.com/
http://www.awprofessional.com/title/0321483502 -- The Mongrel Book
http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/
http://www.lingr.com/room/3yXhqKbfPy8 -- Come get help.


12