moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

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Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Paul Moore
On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:59:03 -0300, lhf wrote:

>So, we're considering moving lua-l fully to Yahoo Groups. Everyone will be
>automatically added to lua-l at Yahoo Groups and so this move will be mostly
>transparent. Also, I understand that you do not need an Yahoo ID to be a member
>of an Yahoo group: everything can be handled by email.
>You only need an Yahoo ID if you want to use the services of Yahoo Groups, such
>as changing your subscription to digest or web, for instance.
>
>This message is just to let you know our plans regarding lua-l.
>Do any of you object to this move?
>
>Perhaps there are disadvantages that we do not know about. Right now, I only
>know of advantages (eg., automatic handling of requests, digest subscriptions).
>I wish I knew how fast posting are delivered to Yahoo Groups. Our list server
>here is pretty fast.
>
>If there are no complaints, the change to Yahoo Groups will happen during next
>week. The list at TeCGraf may be down during the transition.

:-(

Yahoo registration (which is required to do *anything* with your subscription)
requires you to supply a lot of personal information which they have no cause to
need. Also, I have heard reports from people of the level of spam they have
received since registering with Yahoo having gone up. The lists may not get as
much spam, but the subscribers do...

I have no hard evidence, but I don't get the feeling that Yahoo are viewed
well...

Paul.

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Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
>Yahoo registration (which is required to do *anything* with your subscription)

No. Your subscription to a list can be managed completely by email.

>requires you to supply a lot of personal information which they have no cause to

Not my experience. I had just to tell them my postal code, which I invented
anyway.

>need. Also, I have heard reports from people of the level of spam they have
>received since registering with Yahoo having gone up. The lists may not get as
>much spam, but the subscribers do...

Not my experience either, but it may be true.

Again, I'm not defending Yahoo or blaming it.
--lhf

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Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Thiago Conde Figueiro
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:36:46 -0300, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]> wrote:

LF> Not my experience. I had just to tell them my postal code, which I invented
LF> anyway.

   I hope you have written it down, because if you ever need to retrieve your password you will need it.  I had to create a new id because of that just this week.

Regards.
-- 
Thiago Conde Figueiró
Programador
Cipher Technology
http://www.cipher.com.br/

_____
"Segurança em TI - uma especialidade Cipher Technology"

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Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Terence Martin-2
In a general sense, where the list mails come from doesn't bother me, so
long as they're not filled with annoying ads or converted to HTML mail, both
of which I despise with a healthy passion.

But, I zealously guard my email address to avoid spam of any variety. Hence
I have the email address I use for actual mail, and the one I use when
places insist on knowing your email address even though they "*never* sell
it to anyone". Really, this list is the only "public" place I use my actuall
email address. It goes without saying I trust you lua gods more than I
trust, for example, Real Networks.

If the list is moving to a place where it's even easier for people to
harvest email addresses (and which I hesitate to trust), I'd rather just
create myself a second email address just for the list so that this one
doesn't get more public exposure. In which case, it would be cooler if this
address wasn't just automatically added anywhere for me. How do-able is
that?



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RE: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Eric Ries
For those who share this sentiment, now expressed by several list members,
I'd like to suggest a great service: www.sneakemail.com

You can create special one-time-use email forwarding addresses. Then, if
anyone spams you - you know who it was, and you can just shut off that
forwarding label. Plus, it's free.

I've used this service for months now to protect my private home address,
and I can't recommend it enough.

Eric

PS. If you really hate spam, you can also try spamcop.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [[hidden email] Behalf Of Terence Martin
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 6:51 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups
>
>
> In a general sense, where the list mails come from doesn't bother me, so
> long as they're not filled with annoying ads or converted to HTML
> mail, both
> of which I despise with a healthy passion.
>
> But, I zealously guard my email address to avoid spam of any
> variety. Hence
> I have the email address I use for actual mail, and the one I use when
> places insist on knowing your email address even though they "*never* sell
> it to anyone". Really, this list is the only "public" place I use
> my actuall
> email address. It goes without saying I trust you lua gods more than I
> trust, for example, Real Networks.
>
> If the list is moving to a place where it's even easier for people to
> harvest email addresses (and which I hesitate to trust), I'd rather just
> create myself a second email address just for the list so that this one
> doesn't get more public exposure. In which case, it would be
> cooler if this
> address wasn't just automatically added anywhere for me. How do-able is
> that?
>


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Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
>It goes without saying I trust you lua gods more than I trust,
>for example, Real Networks.

Of course, we value your trust and we certainly don't want to give away
email addresses to spammers. We are committed to maintaining your privacy
as much as ours.

Yahoo Groups is committed to privacy, though of course we have no control over
this. As far as I understand, the only way for spammers to harvest email
addresses in Yahoo mailing lists is to subscribe to the list and get the
addresses from the posting they get. There is nothing we can do about this.
(Plus, addresses are already available at the lua-l archives in our ftp site.)

Perhaps then it would be better not to add anyone automatically to Yahoo
Groups, but rather to invite the current subscribers to join. Like I said,
all this can be done directly by email -- no need for registering with Yahoo
or using the web.

Originally, I thought of simply adding everyone to lua-l to Yahoo. I thought
this would be the simplest solution for everyone (less noise and hassle).
Anyone that did not like this could then unsubscribe and perhaps subscribe
with a different address.

Another solution is to host lua-l some place else. Norman Ramsey has agreed
to do it in Harvard, if we need it. This would be an ezmlm list, which would
work much like it is today, except that it is fully automatic. The list at
Yahoo Groups would continue to exist, exactly as it is today, as an alternative
interface for those who want it.

Before we move lua-l to Yahoo, if this happens at all, we will send messages
directly to everyone in the list detailing our plans.

Perhaps further feedback on this topic should be send directly to me instead
of to the list, so that we can go back to discussing Lua!
--lhf

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Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Carlos A M dos Santos
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:

> It's almost an year since we installed the new (Lua based) list server
> here at TeCGraf. On the whole, I'm pretty satisfied with it, but lua-l
> has reached a size that I can no longer manage it by hand. Plus, the
> server is not spam proof.

Welcome to the club. I worked on network management for almost seven
years. My conclusion is that, no matter what you do, no server is
spam-proof.

> So, we're considering moving lua-l fully to Yahoo Groups. [...]
>
> This message is just to let you know our plans regarding lua-l. Do any
> of you object to this move?

I object I don't want my email address stored at Yahoo Groups.

> Perhaps there are disadvantages that we do not know about. Right now,
> I only know of advantages (eg., automatic handling of requests, digest
> subscriptions). I wish I knew how fast posting are delivered to Yahoo
> Groups. Our list server here is pretty fast.

Delivery time seems not to be a problem in lua-l, WRT the other
advantages, most modern MLM software today have the features you
mentioned. Depending on the operating system the list is running on, a
ready-to install package may be available.

Queso told me that duchamp.tecgraf.puc-rio.br is running "Reliant Unix
from Siemens-Nixdorf", that I don't know, but if you have a spare in which
you can install FreeBSD, I cant help you to put a new MLM running.

> If there are no complaints, the change to Yahoo Groups will happen
> during next week. The list at TeCGraf may be down during the
> transition. --lhf

If this is your final decision, please unsubscribe me before doing the
move. Don't take me wrong, but after the experience I had with my previous
email address ([hidden email]) I became a little bit
paranoid. :-)

--
Prof. Carlos A. M. dos Santos     http://www.urisan.tche.br/~casantos
    Universidade Regional Integrada do Alto Uruguai e das Missões
Campus de Santo Ângelo, Depto. de Engenharias e Ciência da Computação
Av. Universidade das Missões, 393 - Santo Ângelo, RS - CEP 98.802-470





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RE: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Jim Mathies-2
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
Title: RE: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups


I have no problems with moving the list to Yahoo. I already have an
account, and am a member of a number of groups there. As far as i
can tell, I don't get much spam from them either. I also think the
services there are excellent - the searchable archives are a very
useful feature.

Regards,
Jim


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RE: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Reuben Thomas-4
> I have no problems with moving the list to Yahoo.

I second this. I had been using eGroups for some time when Yahoo bought
them, and was suspicious of Yahoo's privacy policy, and heard bad things
about the rights they took over postings made to their lists. But when I
studied the small print, everything seemed in order; also, their site seems
fast and the interface, I agree, is excellent (instant access to the last 5
or so messages posted, plus a good searching interface, which is what I use
mostly, as I get the list delivered by email).

The remaining areas of concern are advertising in messages, which AFAICS is
restricted to an ad for Yahoo Groups itself (again, that's in plain text
messages), and spam. Recently I changed the email address to which I have
mail delivered, and the amount of spam dropped markedly. Since I haven't
actually changed my published email address (which I use for mailing lists),
it seems that mailing lists weren't the main source of spam. In any case,
I've certainly not noticed an increase as a result of using Yahoo Groups,
where I am subscribed to about half-a-dozen lists (though most are quieter
than the Lua list).

-- 
http://sc3d.org/rrt/ | plagiarism, n.  the mind burgles


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