moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
29 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
It's almost an year since we installed the new (Lua based) list server here at
TeCGraf. On the whole, I'm pretty satisfied with it, but lua-l has reached a
size that I can no longer manage it by hand. Plus, the server is not spam proof.

So, we're considering moving lua-l fully to Yahoo Groups. Everyone will be
automatically added to lua-l at Yahoo Groups and so this move will be mostly
transparent. Also, I understand that you do not need an Yahoo ID to be a member
of an Yahoo group: everything can be handled by email.
You only need an Yahoo ID if you want to use the services of Yahoo Groups, such
as changing your subscription to digest or web, for instance.

This message is just to let you know our plans regarding lua-l.
Do any of you object to this move?

Perhaps there are disadvantages that we do not know about. Right now, I only
know of advantages (eg., automatic handling of requests, digest subscriptions).
I wish I knew how fast posting are delivered to Yahoo Groups. Our list server
here is pretty fast.

If there are no complaints, the change to Yahoo Groups will happen during next
week. The list at TeCGraf may be down during the transition.
--lhf

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Mauricio Oliveira Carneiro
> This message is just to let you know our plans regarding lua-l.
> Do any of you object to this move?

Well, the lua-l list at yahoogroups as it is now, only allows receiving daily
digests. This is not satisfactory for me (to many others I believe) as I don't
like to read digests.. 

But this can be fixed simply by changing the group properties at yahoo. It can
be changed to allow users to receive one e-mail for each message sent. It's
allowed as an option. 

-- 

[]s
Mauricio Oliveira Carneiro 
http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/~carneiro
Tecgraf - Puc-rio (http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/)


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Daniel Silverstone
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 04:59:03PM -0300, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:

> This message is just to let you know our plans regarding lua-l.
> Do any of you object to this move?

Unfortunately a move to a pure yahoo groups based operation would
exclude some of us (including myself) since the yahoo site does not
support netscape properly.

I have tried many times to register on yahoo groups because a friend
of mine runs a group there.

Would it not be possible to run a majordomo based list or similar?

If need be, I can offer the services of my colocated box to run the
list, although I'd not want to store the archives unless necessary.

Daniel

-- 
Daniel Silverstone                               http://www.digital-scurf.org/
Hostmaster, Webmaster, and Chief Code Wibbler          Digital-Scurf Unlimited
GPG Public key available from pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371            KeyId: 20687895
"Plaese porrf raed."
		-- Prof. Michael O'Longhlin, S.U.N.Y. Purchase

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
>Well, the lua-l list at yahoogroups as it is now, only allows receiving daily
>digests. This is not satisfactory for me (to many others I believe) as I don't
>like to read digests.. 

This will be fixed once lua-l becomes a native Yahoo list.

>Unfortunately a move to a pure yahoo groups based operation would
>exclude some of us (including myself) since the yahoo site does not
>support netscape properly.

You don't need to read lua-l at Yahoo via web.
Once the move is done, everyone will receive posting as soon as they as posted.
Only if you do want digests do you need to use the web. And then only once.
After that, digests are delivered by email.

So, to repeat: A move to Yahoo will not imply that you'll need to read lua-l
at Yahoo via web or that you'd only get digests. Hopefully, it will be just
like it is today.

>Would it not be possible to run a majordomo based list or similar?

The problem with listserv/listproc/majordomo is that they deliver postings
very slowly (they do a single sendmail process, which then delivers messages
one by one; it takes *hours* for a large list such as lua-l, which has 340
subscribers at TeCGraf and 160 at Yahoo). The current list server that I wrote
uses a sendmail process for each 3 subscribers and is very fast for this reason.

I don't have any special reason for choosing Yahoo except that there is a
lua-l list already there. This is the least noise solution.
--lhf

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Erik Hougaard
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
----- Original Message -----
> Do any of you object to this move?

I understand you concerns, but I do not think that Yahoo is the correct
"independant" place to the ownership of the list. I would suggest that this
should be handled by the Lua world.

How about giving the current list server program to the people on the list,
somebody will properly be willing to host the list ?

Or, simple "outsource" the operation of the current solution to somebody on
the list ?

My reservation about Yahoo has to do with the way that ezboard (a popular
bulletin board system) has been progressing, I do not want the Lua list to
plastered with commercials or maybe a banner/popup loaded web interface.


/Erik


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Daniel Silverstone
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:42:32PM -0300, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:

> So, to repeat: A move to Yahoo will not imply that you'll need to read lua-l
> at Yahoo via web or that you'd only get digests. Hopefully, it will be just
> like it is today.

Would we need to re-register? And will we need yahoo accounts if we
don't want things like the web interface or digests?

> >Would it not be possible to run a majordomo based list or similar?
> 
> The problem with listserv/listproc/majordomo is that they deliver postings
> very slowly (they do a single sendmail process, which then delivers messages
> one by one; it takes *hours* for a large list such as lua-l, which has 340
> subscribers at TeCGraf and 160 at Yahoo). The current list server that I wrote
> uses a sendmail process for each 3 subscribers and is very fast for this reason.

Seems Odd, but I shall accept your knowledge on this since I know
nothing of majordomo etc :)

> I don't have any special reason for choosing Yahoo except that there is a
> lua-l list already there. This is the least noise solution.

Will the @tecgraf address still work?

Not withstanding, I am now (thanks to David Jeske) a lot less worried
about the move to Yahoo - Indeed, if it is best for the lua community,
then I suppose I might have to bite the bullet and use IE if I need to
use the site :)

Regards,

Daniel

-- 
Daniel Silverstone                               http://www.digital-scurf.org/
Hostmaster, Webmaster, and Chief Code Wibbler          Digital-Scurf Unlimited
GPG Public key available from pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371            KeyId: 20687895
Teamwork is essential -- it allows you to blame someone else.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups -- SOURCEFORGE

Nahuel Greco
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:07:06 +0100
Daniel Silverstone <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:42:32PM -0300, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:
> 
> > So, to repeat: A move to Yahoo will not imply that you'll need to read lua-l
> > at Yahoo via web or that you'd only get digests. Hopefully, it will be just
> > like it is today.
> 

Why do not move the Lua project to sourceforge?, you can create a mailing list
for your project in sourceforge.net , also, make the cvs available, and etc
etc etc etc..




- Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source - 
- http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research   -
- Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42. -



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

reed mideke-2
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
A couple comments...
Unless you pay (I seem to remember U.S. $60 per list, but I'm
not sure) you get advertisements on every message. If you choose
yahoo groups I would gladly contribute to removing this.
(this is how it was when it was e-groups. I don't
see anything mentioning this option for yahoo. If
there is no way to prevent the ads, I'd rather
have the list elsewhere.)

In my experience, yahoo groups is reasonably fast. (I don't
recall exactly, but it seems like the messages normally appear
in minutes rather than hours)

Another option would be to host the list on sourceforge (this
does NOT require that you host the whole lua project there,
you can have a project that is just a mailing list). This
is how the Game Dev Algorithms (gdalgorithms) list works.  
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/gdalgorithms/)
Sourceforge gives you the ability to subscribe/unsubscribe
via a web page (or using traditional mail commands), and has web
browsable archives. IMHO, the sourceforge web interface is
inferior to the yahoo groups (the handling of list threading in
the archives is worse is even worse, for example) 

I have not had trouble using the yahoo groups web interface
with netscape, but I don't use it very often. OTOH, sourceforge
will almost certainly continue to work with non-IE browsers.


Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:
> 
> It's almost an year since we installed the new (Lua based) list server here at
> TeCGraf. On the whole, I'm pretty satisfied with it, but lua-l has reached a
> size that I can no longer manage it by hand. Plus, the server is not spam proof.
> 
[...]

--
Reed Mideke
email: rfm(at)redshift.com  -If that fails:  rfm(at)portalofevil.com 
My old rfm(at)cruzers.com email is going away. 
Use the one of the above instead.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
>Would we need to re-register?

No. Everyone will be moved automatically to lua-l at Yahoo.
(But in batches of 100 per day, because of Yahoo's antispam policies.)

>And will we need yahoo accounts if we
>don't want things like the web interface or digests?

No need for Yahoo accounts. You'll still get lua-l posting in your mailbox
as soon as they are posted.

>Will the @tecgraf address still work?

Yes, it will forward postings to Yahoo.
Like I said, everything will be mostly as it is now.

>Not withstanding, I am now (thanks to David Jeske) a lot less worried
>about the move to Yahoo - Indeed, if it is best for the lua community,
>then I suppose I might have to bite the bullet and use IE if I need to
>use the site :)

Like I said, there's no need ot use a web browser to read lua-l.
You'll still get postings in your mailbox.

Yes, thanks to David Jeske. He's given me tips on this change.
--lhf

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
>Unless you pay you get advertisements on every message

I think ads appear only in the web interface.
I've subscribed to a C list at Yahoo as a test and I got no ads.
I also subscribe lua-l at Yahoo and get no ads at all.
If there were ads, I'd not use Yahoo.
--lhf

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

John Belmonte-2
lhf wrote:
> I think ads appear only in the web interface.
> I've subscribed to a C list at Yahoo as a test and I got no ads.
> I also subscribe lua-l at Yahoo and get no ads at all.
> If there were ads, I'd not use Yahoo.

I don't have any complaint about moving to Yahoo.  However I'd like to point
out that just because they don't attach ads today doesn't mean they won't
change their policy tomorrow.  If you are opposed to ads then you should be
prepared for the possibility of someday having to move the list again or pay
an opt-out charge.

-John



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Philippe Lhoste
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:
> >Unless you pay you get advertisements on every message
> 
> I think ads appear only in the web interface.
> I've subscribed to a C list at Yahoo as a test and I got no ads.
> I also subscribe lua-l at Yahoo and get no ads at all.
> If there were ads, I'd not use Yahoo.

There are ads, but currently only in HTML formated messages.
Here is the source of a message I received from the Yahoo-Groups based
AutoIt list:

>>>>>-----8<----->>>>>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type"
CONTENT="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>When I double click on&nbsp; any of the Examples in
AutoIt 
they run fine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>When I open it in the Script Editor and attempt to
test it 
I receive the message:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Unable to load script 
file.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Clicking OK I get:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; C:\program</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>What am I doing wrong?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<br>

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td width=470><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168002.1477935.3051340.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700144708:N/A=624151/*http://mojofarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039-2?bn=Take4DVD468"; target="_top"><img width=468 height=60
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/co/columbiahouse/Take4_DVD_468.gif"; alt="Click for
Details" border=0><br>Click for Details</a></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=168002.1477935.3051340.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700144708:N/A=624151/rand=352661563";></td></tr>
</table>

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->


<br>
<tt>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
[hidden email]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>
<br>

<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/";>Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>

</BODY></HTML>
<<<<<----->8-----<<<<<

Message sent with Outlook Express...

Now, since there is almost no user of this list that send HTML messages, it
is a very minor concern. But you must be aware of this.

Regards.

-- 
--._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.--
Philippe Lhoste (Paris -- France)
Professional programmer and amateur artist
http://jove.prohosting.com/~philho/
--´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`--

Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Nick Trout-2
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo" <[hidden email]>
| So, we're considering moving lua-l fully to Yahoo Groups.


Havent used Yahoo groups much, don't know how much its changed from being
egroups (which used to be ok). I'm on a couple of sourceforge mailing lists and
they work fine. Works just like this list. The web interface is geocrawler which
seems to be a little slower than Yahoo but it works. You can just use the
mailing list facility and distribute files from Sourceforge. You dont have to
put your CVS source tree on there. I know we have had this discussion before and
you dont want to. Possible advantages of going onto sourceforge: you are part of
an open source development community and the Lua project will be searchable and
connected to the sourceforge (you could get some good coverage for increasing
the popularity of the language). Sourceforge will develop features for a
community supporting open source. (eg. They have render farms so you can test
portablity of your code). I also think you're possibly less likely to get
advertising in the future on sourceforge than you would on Yahoo? Yahoo has
shareholders, Sourceforge is a free sponsored open source initiative.

Nick





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

John Belmonte-2
Nick Trout wrote:
> I also think you're possibly less likely to get
> advertising in the future on sourceforge than you would on Yahoo? Yahoo
has
> shareholders, Sourceforge is a free sponsored open source initiative.

But somebody (in this case VA Linux, which also has shareholders by the way)
has to host that site, and that somebody is just as likely as Yahoo to use
mailing list ads to help pay the bills someday.  VA Linux also sounds a
little unstable according to this news:


http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/06/27/010627hnvalinux.xml?062
.


-John



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Nick Trout-2
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Belmonte" <[hidden email]>
| Nick Trout wrote:
| > I also think you're possibly less likely to get
| > advertising in the future on sourceforge than you would on Yahoo? Yahoo
| has
| > shareholders, Sourceforge is a free sponsored open source initiative.

| But somebody (in this case VA Linux, which also has shareholders by the way)
| has to host that site, and that somebody is just as likely as Yahoo to use
| mailing list ads to help pay the bills someday.  VA Linux also sounds a
| little unstable according to this news:
| http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/06/27/010627hnvalinux.xml?062

:-s   http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=LNUX&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l

Point taken!

I suspect a lot of sites won't remain free forever. They'll all get you somehow.
Just because I'm not paranoid doesnt mean they're not out to get me.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Francis Burton-2
In reply to this post by John Belmonte-2
At 10:10 10/07/01 +0900, "John Belmonte" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>lhf wrote:
>> I think ads appear only in the web interface.
>> I've subscribed to a C list at Yahoo as a test and I got no ads.
>> I also subscribe lua-l at Yahoo and get no ads at all.
>> If there were ads, I'd not use Yahoo.
>
>I don't have any complaint about moving to Yahoo.  However I'd like to point
>out that just because they don't attach ads today doesn't mean they won't
>change their policy tomorrow.  If you are opposed to ads then you should be
>prepared for the possibility of someday having to move the list again or pay
>an opt-out charge.

I too would unsubscribe if ads were to appear.

Philippe Lhoste mentioned ads in HTML formatted messages.
I'm not sure what this means in practice, but I would also
unsubscribe if I started receiving HTML.

Francis
(who considers himself a purist, rather than a luddite)


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
>I too would unsubscribe if ads were to appear.
>
>Philippe Lhoste mentioned ads in HTML formatted messages.
>I'm not sure what this means in practice, but I would also
>unsubscribe if I started receiving HTML.

To receive HTML messages you have to say so explicitly and for this you need
an Yahoo ID. If you never use the web interface, you'll never get either ads
or HTML messages.

Mind you, I'm not a fan or otherwise of Yahoo Groups. It's just that there
is a Lua list there already (with some 150 subscribers that are NOT in our
list here) and I want to minimize noise.

I understand the concerns about ads and about the lifetime of Yahoo Groups.
If Yahoo Groups dies or becomes inconvenient, we'll find some other solution.
--lhf

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Philippe Lhoste
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
> >I too would unsubscribe if ads were to appear.
> >
> >Philippe Lhoste mentioned ads in HTML formatted messages.
> >I'm not sure what this means in practice, but I would also
> >unsubscribe if I started receiving HTML.
> 
> To receive HTML messages you have to say so explicitly and for 
> this you need
> an Yahoo ID. If you never use the web interface, you'll never get 
> either ads
> or HTML messages.

Not true (I think). Jens just sent an HTML message (using Microsoft Outlook
Express 5.5), and I believe Yahoo would hack it to add its ad (like it is
done for free Web hosted pages).
 
> Mind you, I'm not a fan or otherwise of Yahoo Groups. It's just that there
> is a Lua list there already (with some 150 subscribers that are NOT in our
> list here) and I want to minimize noise.

OK for me...
 
> I understand the concerns about ads and about the lifetime of 
> Yahoo Groups.
> If Yahoo Groups dies or becomes inconvenient, we'll find some 
> other solution.
> --lhf

Well, Yahoo is less likely to die that VA Linux or other sites, I think...
But nothing on the Web is eternal anyway.

Regards.

-- 
--._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.--
Philippe Lhoste (Paris -- France)
Professional programmer and amateur artist
http://jove.prohosting.com/~philho/
--´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`--

Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

Markus Ewald
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo schrieb:

> ...
> So, we're considering moving lua-l fully to Yahoo Groups. Everyone will be
> automatically added to lua-l at Yahoo Groups and so this move will be mostly
> transparent. Also, I understand that you do not need an Yahoo ID to be a
> member
> of an Yahoo group: everything can be handled by email.
> You only need an Yahoo ID if you want to use the services of Yahoo Groups,
> such
> as changing your subscription to digest or web, for instance.
>
> This message is just to let you know our plans regarding lua-l.
> Do any of you object to this move?
>
>
>> Erik Hougaard schrieb:
>>
>> I understand you concerns, but I do not think that Yahoo is the correct
>> "independant" place to the ownership of the list. I would suggest that this
>>
>> should be handled by the Lua world.
>>
>> How about giving the current list server program to the people on the list,
>>
>> somebody will properly be willing to host the list ?
>>
>> Or, simple "outsource" the operation of the current solution to somebody on
>>
>> the list ?
>>
>> My reservation about Yahoo has to do with the way that ezboard (a popular
>> bulletin board system) has been progressing, I do not want the Lua list to
>> plastered with commercials or maybe a banner/popup loaded web interface.
>>
>> /Erik
>
I also don't like the idea of being subscribed (and known) to Yahoo's eGroups
too much.
I have used some of their serives in the past, and they all equally turned from
something useful gathering many users into spam-plagued
"announcement"-spreaders. I can only support Erik's description about the
EzBoards, the same has happened to "Yahoo!Clubs".
Therefore, *yahoo.com is entered into my spam list.

I there was another option, like sourceforge, I'd rather vote for that.

-Markus-





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: moving lua-l to Yahoo Groups

David Jeske-3
On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 06:26:21PM +0200, Markus Ewald wrote:
> I also don't like the idea of being subscribed (and known) to
> Yahoo's eGroups too much.  I have used some of their serives in the
> past, and they all equally turned from something useful gathering
> many users into spam-plagued "announcement"-spreaders. I can only
> support Erik's description about the EzBoards, the same has happened
> to "Yahoo!Clubs".  Therefore, *yahoo.com is entered into my spam
> list.

Yahoo does not send unsolicited bulk-mail. Their privacy policy
specifically forbids it. However, because Yahoo is such a large
target, there are groups who try and harvest addresses off services on
Yahoo, just like groups harvest addresses off of usenet. These groups
will harvest off of sourceforge as well if they want to reach that
audience. Unfortunatly, the only way to steer clear of these
harvesters is to run the mailing list yourself so that it's not a big
target.

Here is a section of Yahoo's privacy policy.

http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/

   Information Sharing and Disclosure

   - Yahoo! will not sell or rent your personally identifiable 
     information to anyone. 
   - Yahoo! may send personally identifiable information about 
     you to other companies or people when: 
     - We have your consent to share the information; 
     - We need to share your information to provide the 
       product or service you have requested; 
     - We need to send the information to companies who 
       work on behalf of Yahoo! to provide a product or 
       service to you. (Unless we tell you differently, 
       these companies do not have any right to use the 
       personally identifiable information we provide to 
       them beyond what is necessary to assist us.); 
     - We respond to subpoenas, court orders or legal process; or 
     - We find that your actions on our web sites violate the 
       Yahoo! Terms of Service, the Yahoo! GeoCities Terms 
       of Service, or any of our usage guidelines 
       for specific products or services. 


-- 
David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ + [hidden email]

12