Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

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Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Niccolo Medici
I'm talking about the documentation you see at https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/ .

I'm often off-line so I want to have the documentation on my own computer.

The documentation that comes in Lua 5.1's tarball doesn't contain all
the functions (e.g., 'lua_isnoneornil' is missing, from both
contents.html and manual.html).

I know I can crawl-download the documentation from
https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/ with a tool like wget but I thought to
ask first if there's a more straightforward way.

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Ignacio Burgueño-2
Is this what you're looking for?


Regards,
Ignacio
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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Niccolo Medici
> The documentation that comes in Lua 5.1's tarball doesn't contain all
> the functions (e.g., 'lua_isnoneornil' is missing, from both
> contents.html and manual.html).

The manual in lua.org and in the tarball should be almost identical (the
HTML has some relative links in the case of the web version and absolute
links in the tar version).

lua_isnoneornil is definitely not missing in either version.

Which version of 5.1 do you mean?

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Niccolo Medici
On 6/30/16, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Which version of 5.1 do you mean?

I downloaded the tarball from:

https://www.lua.org/ftp/lua-5.1.tar.gz

>
> The manual in lua.org and in the tarball should be almost identical

This "almost identical" is a huge time waster. Let me explain:

Since I couldn't see 'lua_isnoneornil' in my documentation (from the
tarball) I concluded that Lua 5.1 doesn't have it. So I embarked on
writing my own implementation for it. Since I want to cover the cases
where it's implemented (in later Lua version) as either a macro or
function I also have to add a feature test to 'configure.ac'
(autotools). I also need to test that my setup compiles correctly on
all Lua versions.

So, while for you it's "almost identical", for a programmer it means a
difference of a couple extra hours of work.

At the moment I don't know what other functions are missing from the
documentation in the tarball (one can't know just from a cursory
glance).

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
> I downloaded the tarball from:
>
> https://www.lua.org/ftp/lua-5.1.tar.gz

That is the very first relase of Lua 5.1, released in 2006!
Get http://www.lua.org/ftp/lua-5.1.5.tar.gz , released in 2012.

I wonder what led you to download lua-5.1.tar.gz instead of lua-5.1.5.tar.gz.

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Niccolo Medici
On 6/30/16, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I downloaded the tarball from:
>>
>> https://www.lua.org/ftp/lua-5.1.tar.gz
>
> That is the very first relase of Lua 5.1, released in 2006!
> Get http://www.lua.org/ftp/lua-5.1.5.tar.gz , released in 2012.

I see. Thanks for explaining this to me. I downloaded this newer
tarball and its bundled documentation is fine.

> I wonder what led you to download lua-5.1.tar.gz instead of
> lua-5.1.5.tar.gz.

It's very simple:

- I went to the site.
- I clicked "download".
- I clicked "versions".
- I scrolled down to the "Lua 5.1" header.
- I clicked the "Lua 5.1" link at the beginning.

I didn't know I wasn't supposed to click that link. It said "Lua 5.1".
So, naturally, I clicked it. Did you *really* expect me to read all
the story there?! It's the internet, man, the internet. No one is
reading on the internet. We're "scanning". The link said "Lua 5.1", so
I clicked it. Why shouldn't I? I'm already familiar with Lua, so even
if I weren't a "scanner" I would have ignored that story. If you don't
want people to click a link, make it say "click here to learn how to
become rich quickly", not "Lua 5.1". Or make it say "Lua 5.1.0" --this
would have caused me to pause.

I downloaded that tarball at least 5 times over the past 3 years. Each
time I made that same mistake. I don't consider myself stupid. If I
failed in this, I guess many other would too.

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Niccolo Medici
On 7/1/16, Niccolo Medici <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/30/16, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I wonder what led you to download lua-5.1.tar.gz instead of
>> lua-5.1.5.tar.gz.
>
> It's very simple:
>
> - I went to the site.
> - I clicked "download".
> - I clicked "versions".
> - I scrolled down to the "Lua 5.1" header.
> - I clicked the "Lua 5.1" link at the beginning.
>
> [...] It's the internet, man, the internet. No one is
> reading on the internet. We're "scanning". The link
> said "Lua 5.1", so I clicked it. Why shouldn't I?

First, sorry about the bickering.

Now,

I have a suggestion for a little improvement to the "versions" page
that could solve the behavioral problem I described:

The following repeating formula:

   "[Lua 5.x] was released on ... "

Should be change to:

   "Lua 5.x was released on ... "

(That is, the link should be removed; except for Lua 3.1 and prior.)

Or, better, it should be changed to: "Lua 5.x.0 was released on ... ".
We're talking about a specific release, so "5.x.0" makes sense. It
also visually matches the text "Lua 5.x.n" that comes in the actual
link. The words "Lua 5.x.0" perhaps should be made bold; this will
*semantically* match the "Lua 5.x.n" link (and will also visually
balance them with the links for Lua 3.1 and prior).

Why remove these links?

(1) As I described earlier, users are liable to ignorantly click these links.

(2) Because... what's their purpose? If the user wants to wear the
archaeologist hat, why would he be interested in Lua 5.2.0 of all
versions and not, say, in 5.2.2? There's already a "Download area"
page with all the versions. By not providing a 5.2.0 link you force
archaeologists to go the the *correct* page for them.

If you're not convinced, I suggest you check the HTTP server's
statistic to see if people are more likely to land on the "versions"
page than on the "Download area" page. (I suspect this is the case
because the "download" page (not "Download area", which is another
page) has a prominent "versions" link at its top. So users looking for
earlier versions are more likely to land there.) If the "versions"
page is visited more you'd know it's the de-facto Download Area and
you don't want the masses making a mistake there.

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Niccolo Medici
On 7/1/16, Niccolo Medici <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If you're not convinced, I suggest you check the HTTP server's
> statistic to see if people are more likely to [...]

Oh, I have another suggestion: see, in the server logs, whether many
people are downloading the 5.2.0 and 5.1 tarballs (instead of 5.2.4
and 5.1.5). (I specifically don't mention 5.3.x because users are less
likely to err here, as there are prominent 5.3.3 links on the site.)

If many people indeed download the "incorrect" tarballs, you'd know
that there's certainly a problem. Maybe your server can also tell you
the "referer"; that is, whether these "erroneous" download requests
come indeed from the "versions" page.

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Niccolo Medici
> I have a suggestion for a little improvement to the "versions" page
> that could solve the behavioral problem I described:

It's fixed now. I'm sorry for the misleading links. Thanks for the nudge.
        http://www.lua.org/versions.html

(You may have to refresh that page in the browser.)

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Martin


On 16-07-01 06:53 AM, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:
>> I have a suggestion for a little improvement to the "versions" page
>> that could solve the behavioral problem I described:
>
> It's fixed now. I'm sorry for the misleading links. Thanks for the nudge.
> http://www.lua.org/versions.html
>
> (You may have to refresh that page in the browser.)
>
Thanks for fixing it and thanks for reply! I really like this approach
when developers give feedback instead of ignoring of silent fixing.

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

sur-behoffski
In reply to this post by Niccolo Medici
G'day,

Thanks for the updates to the versions.html page.

There are three things I notice as I read the page now, that I
believe could be clarified further:

1. Version 5.3 uses the phrase "current release". whereas all other
versions use "last release".  I believe that this latter phrase is
potentially misleading -- if a bug is fixed in a version, then the
release number is updated accordingly (e.g. 5.1.6), along with the
release date.  The word "last" can be misinterpreted to mean "final",
when "final" is not guaranteed to be the case.  I suggest a longer
phrase; perhaps "most recent bugfix release" (you may have a better
suggestion);

2. The opening paragraph starts by talking about a chronology of
the "versions" of Lua in the first sentence, then gives a pointer
to a 2007 paper in the second sentence, and then gives a pointer to
all "releases" in the third and final sentence.

I believe that this paragraph needs some surgery; at least, split
the third (release download) sentence into a separate paragraph, as
this points to a ftp directory, where all releases are laid out; and

3. On my browser (not Opera!), the font/colour scheme/character
style/whatever for links, both unreferenced and referenced, is not
all that different from the plain text.  I would appreciate a
scheme where the links were more distinctive.  (I suspect that this
is one of the reasons why I had trouble finding the
release-download link in the first paragraph).

In any case, thanks for your consideration.

cheers,

sur-behoffski (Brenton Hoff)
Programmer, Grouse Software

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Daurnimator
On 3 Jul 2016 14:12, "sur-behoffski" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 1. Version 5.3 uses the phrase "current release". whereas all other
> versions use "last release".  I believe that this latter phrase is
> potentially misleading -- if a bug is fixed in a version, then the
> release number is updated accordingly (e.g. 5.1.6), along with the
> release date.  The word "last" can be misinterpreted to mean "final",
> when "final" is not guaranteed to be the case.  I suggest a longer
> phrase; perhaps "most recent bugfix release" (you may have a better
> suggestion);

Actually your interpretation is correct.

There *will not* be a 5.1.6; 5.1.5 is the last release of the 5.1 branch.

Whereas 5.3 will have future releases.

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Niccolo Medici
In reply to this post by sur-behoffski
On 7/3/16, sur-behoffski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 1. Version 5.3 uses the phrase "current release". whereas all other
> versions use "last release".  I believe that this latter phrase is
> potentially misleading -- if a bug is fixed in a version, then the
> release number is updated accordingly (e.g. 5.1.6), along with the
> release date.  The word "last" can be misinterpreted to mean "final",
> when "final" is not guaranteed to be the case.  I suggest a longer
> phrase; perhaps "most recent bugfix release" (you may have a better
> suggestion);

I personally don't see a problem with the current labels. (I'm just a
random passerby here.)

> 3. On my browser (not Opera!), the font/colour scheme/character
> style/whatever for links, both unreferenced and referenced, is not
> all that different from the plain text.

I think here you have a point.

According to the "Web Content Accessibility Guidelines"[1], if I
understand them correctly, then if you use only color to distinguish
links, you need a contrast ratio[2] of at least 3:1 with surrounding
text. lua.org's contrast ratio is 1.3:1 (where normal text is #000000
and links #000080). But you're allowed(?) to work around this by
providing another visual cue, like an underline. Indeed, when I visit
w3c.org's frontpage I see that while their contrast is only 1.67:1,
they do use a nice underline.

Here's a CSS I suggest for lua.org's:

    /* Show a dainty underline only for links inside paragraphs
     * (not for ones in menus & headers!) */
    p a { border-bottom: 1px solid #A8BFCF; }


[1] http://webaim.org/blog/wcag-2-0-and-link-colors/
[2] http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by sur-behoffski
> 3. On my browser (not Opera!), the font/colour scheme/character
> style/whatever for links, both unreferenced and referenced, is not
> all that different from the plain text.  I would appreciate a
> scheme where the links were more distinctive.

Suggestions for improving the CSS are welcome. See
        http://www.lua.org/lua.css

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Niccolo Medici
On 7/3/16, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 3. On my browser (not Opera!), the font/colour scheme/character
>> style/whatever for links, both unreferenced and referenced, is not
>> all that different from the plain text.  I would appreciate a
>> scheme where the links were more distinctive.
>
> Suggestions for improving the CSS are welcome. See
> http://www.lua.org/lua.css

What about my suggestion in
http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2016-07/msg00039.html (see "p a { ...
}", towards the end) ?

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
> > Suggestions for improving the CSS are welcome. See
> > http://www.lua.org/lua.css
>
> What about my suggestion in
> http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2016-07/msg00039.html (see "p a { ...
> }", towards the end) ?

I don't really like underlined links and it does not look good to me.
Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

I'd like to get suggestions for the color of both visited and not visited links.

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Re: Where can I download the Lua 5.1's manual?

Nagaev Boris
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 1:13 AM, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>> > Suggestions for improving the CSS are welcome. See
>> >     http://www.lua.org/lua.css
>>
>> What about my suggestion in
>> http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2016-07/msg00039.html (see "p a { ...
>> }", towards the end) ?
>
> I don't really like underlined links and it does not look good to me.
> Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
>
> I'd like to get suggestions for the color of both visited and not visited links.
>

I recommend to give complete control over links' colours to a browser.
Most browsers use blue for not visited links and purple for visited links.

--


Best regards,
Boris Nagaev