Time to split the Lua list?

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Time to split the Lua list?

Phil Leblanc
Looking at posts in the Lua mailing list in the last few weeks, it
seems that they belong to  two quite distinct clusters, so I think it
might be time to split this list in two.

The first mailing list would be "Lua list as usual", containing a mix
of announcements, "how to do x?", "is x a bug?", "any Lua library to
do x?", "how to build Lua on x", etc.

The second mailing list would be "Lua Concepts Explanation and
Formalization". It would be dedicated to these long educational and/or
brainstorming threads.

The split would allow the mundane stuff, still interesting for a few
participants, not to be drowned in those higher level threads.
Conversely, It would open a space entirely dedicated to powerful
thinking, without the pollution of lesser matters.

Of course, for this to work, we should all avoid Explaining and
Formalizing in the first list, but rather do it in the second list.

What do you think?

(slightly-tongue-in-cheek-ly) yours,

Phil

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Petite Abeille


> On Dec 1, 2018, at 19:23, Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What do you think?

Plonk?

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Albert Chan
In reply to this post by Phil Leblanc

> The split would allow the mundane stuff, still interesting for a few
> participants, not to be drowned in those higher level threads.
> Conversely, It would open a space entirely dedicated to powerful
> thinking, without the pollution of lesser matters.
>
> Phil

Looking at the statistics, Lua mailing list does not warrant a split ...
Besides, everyone will join the "powerful thinking" group. :-D

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Phil Leblanc
In reply to this post by Petite Abeille
On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 1:50 PM Petite Abeille <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Plonk?

Yeah, but not a solution for people reading Lua list on the archive :-)

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Tim Hill
In reply to this post by Phil Leblanc


> On Dec 1, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Looking at posts in the Lua mailing list in the last few weeks, it
> seems that they belong to  two quite distinct clusters, so I think it
> might be time to split this list in two.
>
> The first mailing list would be "Lua list as usual", containing a mix
> of announcements, "how to do x?", "is x a bug?", "any Lua library to
> do x?", "how to build Lua on x", etc.
>
> The second mailing list would be "Lua Concepts Explanation and
> Formalization". It would be dedicated to these long educational and/or
> brainstorming threads.
>
> The split would allow the mundane stuff, still interesting for a few
> participants, not to be drowned in those higher level threads.
> Conversely, It would open a space entirely dedicated to powerful
> thinking, without the pollution of lesser matters.
>
> Of course, for this to work, we should all avoid Explaining and
> Formalizing in the first list, but rather do it in the second list.
>
> What do you think?
>
> (slightly-tongue-in-cheek-ly) yours,
>
> Phil
>

Good idea on paper, and I’ve seen it tried before. All that happens is ppl post the same message to BOTH lists and chaos ensues :(

—Tim


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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Dirk Laurie-2
In reply to this post by Phil Leblanc
Op Sa. 1 Des. 2018 om 20:24 het Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]> geskryf:

>
> Looking at posts in the Lua mailing list in the last few weeks, it
> seems that they belong to  two quite distinct clusters, so I think it
> might be time to split this list in two.
>
> The first mailing list would be "Lua list as usual", containing a mix
> of announcements, "how to do x?", "is x a bug?", "any Lua library to
> do x?", "how to build Lua on x", etc.
>
> The second mailing list would be "Lua Concepts Explanation and
> Formalization". It would be dedicated to these long educational and/or
> brainstorming threads.
>
> The split would allow the mundane stuff, still interesting for a few
> participants, not to be drowned in those higher level threads.
> Conversely, It would open a space entirely dedicated to powerful
> thinking, without the pollution of lesser matters.
>
> Of course, for this to work, we should all avoid Explaining and
> Formalizing in the first list, but rather do it in the second list.
>
> What do you think?

Not gonna work. Only people who are already well-behaved will
disciplined enough to respect the split.

I personally classify list members on past performance. Posts from
those I have categorized as chronic hair-splitters [1] only get
opened, let alone read, when I have leisure available plus an
indulgent attitude.

[1] I've got a liitle list of those who won't be missed.

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Lorenzo Donati-3
In reply to this post by Tim Hill
On 01/12/2018 19:59, Tim Hill wrote:
>
>
>> On Dec 1, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:

[...]

>> What do you think?
>>
>> (slightly-tongue-in-cheek-ly) yours,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>
> Good idea on paper, and I’ve seen it tried before. All that happens
> is ppl post the same message to BOTH lists and chaos ensues :(
>

Yep (sadly)!

"Let's post there too, just in case..." *sigh!*

This reminds me of:

"You can't solve social issues with technology."

(citation needed - I forgot who said that, but always true)


> —Tim
>
>
>

Cheers!

-- Lorenzo [1]

[1] Don't feed the Trolls! ;-)



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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Roberto Ierusalimschy
In reply to this post by Dirk Laurie-2
> I personally classify list members on past performance. Posts from
> those I have categorized as chronic hair-splitters [1] only get
> opened, let alone read, when I have leisure available plus an
> indulgent attitude.

+1 :-)

-- Roberto

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Matthias Kluwe
In reply to this post by Petite Abeille
Am Sa., 1. Dez. 2018, 19:49 hat Petite Abeille <[hidden email]> geschrieben:


> On Dec 1, 2018, at 19:23, Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What do you think?

Plonk?

Works.
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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Phil Leblanc
>> Plonk?
>
> Works.

Works for mail. Not when reading from lua-l archive... Must probably
just get faster at hitting the [Thread Next] link :-)

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Jeff Pohlmeyer
In reply to this post by Phil Leblanc
On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 12:24 PM Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Looking at posts in the Lua mailing list in the last few weeks, it
> seems that they belong to  two quite distinct clusters, so I think it
> might be time to split this list in two.

I still stand by my suggestion from several years ago:
 lua-users: For people who want to *use* Lua.
 lua-devel: For people who want to *change* Lua.

 - Jeff

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Dirk Laurie-2
Op Ma. 3 Des. 2018 om 10:04 het Jeff Pohlmeyer
<[hidden email]> geskryf:
>
> On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 12:24 PM Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Looking at posts in the Lua mailing list in the last few weeks, it
> > seems that they belong to  two quite distinct clusters, so I think it
> > might be time to split this list in two.
> I still stand by my suggestion from several years ago:
>  lua-users: For people who want to *use* Lua.
>  lua-devel: For people who want to *change* Lua.

Would not [USE] and [DEV] in the subject line, lile [ANN] mostly is
used already, do the trick?

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Dirk Laurie-2
In reply to this post by Phil Leblanc
Op Sa. 1 Des. 2018 om 20:24 het Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]> geskryf:

> Looking at posts in the Lua mailing list in the last few weeks, it
> seems that they belong to  two quite distinct clusters, so I think it
> might be time to split this list in two.

There are actually three clusters:

1. Those who use Lua as it is.
2. Those who dream about Lua as it might be.
3. Those who argue for argument's sake.

No split of clusters #1 and #2 is going to deter cluster #3.

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Lorenzo Donati-3
On 03/12/2018 09:41, Dirk Laurie wrote:

> Op Sa. 1 Des. 2018 om 20:24 het Phil Leblanc <[hidden email]> geskryf:
>
>> Looking at posts in the Lua mailing list in the last few weeks, it
>> seems that they belong to  two quite distinct clusters, so I think it
>> might be time to split this list in two.
>
> There are actually three clusters:
>
> 1. Those who use Lua as it is.
> 2. Those who dream about Lua as it might be.
> 3. Those who argue for argument's sake.
>
> No split of clusters #1 and #2 is going to deter cluster #3.
>
>

Yep!!! Best one-liner analysis I've ever read about that problem!

I'd add that splitting the list would /increment/ the overall traffic of
people belonging to 3: they'll have /two/ lists where to post!

 From my experience people belonging to the 3rd category have found a
way to break space-time continuum: they can post the same amount of text
to any list they subscribe, regardless of how many these lists are!


:-D

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Jeff Pohlmeyer
In reply to this post by Dirk Laurie-2
On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 2:41 AM Dirk Laurie <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1. Those who use Lua as it is.
> 2. Those who dream about Lua as it might be.
> 3. Those who argue for argument's sake.
>
> No split of clusters #1 and #2 is going to deter cluster #3.

Agreed, but the overwhelming majority of long-winded #3 threads I've seen
here would end up on list #2, so at least least the #1 list would stay
a bit cleaner.

 - Jeff

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

John Hind
In reply to this post by Phil Leblanc

>There are actually three clusters:
>
>1. Those who use Lua as it is.
>2. Those who dream about Lua as it might be.
>3. Those who argue for argument's sake.
>
>No split of clusters #1 and #2 is going to deter cluster #3.
>

Lists 2 and 3 should be made digest only. This would mean that:

a. The built-in time delay would have an automatic moderating effect.

b. Members would automatically have to supply a 'proof of work' in that
they would have to work out how to decrypt the messages courtesy of that
decades old bug in the list software! Also perhaps 'proof of
intelligence'?

This should weed out the armchair language designers (including, I
admit, me!). I'm only still here because I'm too damn lazy to work out
how to cancel my subscription! I've still not worked out which is more
meaningless - the random blocks of ASCII in the message digests or yet
another thread about nil in tables!


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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Gé Weijers

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 3:43 AM John Hind <[hidden email]> wrote:

>There are actually three clusters:
>
>1. Those who use Lua as it is.
>2. Those who dream about Lua as it might be.
>3. Those who argue for argument's sake.
>
>No split of clusters #1 and #2 is going to deter cluster #3.


Perhaps we should give everyone a word and/or message allowance (5 messages and 500 words/day?)
This would force commenters to weigh their words carefully, or their message will bounce...
 
--

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Petite Abeille


> On Dec 4, 2018, at 02:32, Gé Weijers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> weigh their words carefully

“I apologize for such a long letter - I didn't have time to write a short one.”

― Mark Twain


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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Dirk Laurie-2
Op Di. 4 Des. 2018 om 03:37 het Petite Abeille
<[hidden email]> geskryf:
>
> “I apologize for such a long letter - I didn't have time to write a short one.”
>
> ― Mark Twain

Mark Twain never wrote that. [1]

The original version is in Pascal's Provincial Letters [2]. Very few
authors can be quite as turgid as a mathematician writing to Jesuits
on a subtle religious point [3]. Letter XVI is particularly good
bedtime reading, if your purpose is dropping off soon. Its second-last
paragraph, proving its own point, starts:

> Reverend fathers, my letters were not wont either to be so prolix, or to follow so closely on one another. Want of time must plead my excuse for both of these faults. The present letter is a very long one, simply because I had no leisure to make it shorter.

[1] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/28/shorter-letter/
[2] Full text of M'Crie's 1886 translation, from which I quote, is
widely available online.
[3] Or a philosopher posting to the Lua list on a subtle programming point.

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Re: Time to split the Lua list?

Petite Abeille


> On Dec 4, 2018, at 05:41, Dirk Laurie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Mark Twain never wrote that. [1]

mwhahaha :D

https://xkcd.com/386/




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