Russian section of lua.org

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Sol
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Russian section of lua.org

Sol
Greetings!

lua.org have a portugal version at https://www.lua.org/portugues.html 
How I can contact to site webmaster? I have "an offer he can't refuse" :) 
Realy, I want to deal Russian version and restart Russian community.
At first, we have a complete translation 5.3 reference.
lua.ru is oudated and abandoned.

What about https://www.lua.org/russian.html or ru.lua.org subdomain for us? Hosting is not problem.

WBR,
Sol.
Sol
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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Sol
Excuse me, second attempt.

2017-04-15 23:30 GMT+03:00 Sol <[hidden email]>:

> Greetings!
>
> lua.org have a portugal version at https://www.lua.org/portugues.html
> How I can contact to site webmaster? I have "an offer he can't refuse" :)
> Realy, I want to deal Russian version and restart Russian community.
> At first, we have a complete translation 5.3 reference.
> lua.ru is oudated and abandoned.
>
> What about https://www.lua.org/russian.html or ru.lua.org subdomain for us?
> Hosting is not problem.
>
> WBR,
> Sol.

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Nagaev Boris
In reply to this post by Sol


On 15 Apr 2017 9:30 pm, "Sol" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings!

lua.org have a portugal version at https://www.lua.org/portugues.html 
How I can contact to site webmaster? I have "an offer he can't refuse" :) 
Realy, I want to deal Russian version and restart Russian community.
At first, we have a complete translation 5.3 reference.
lua.ru is oudated and abandoned.

What about https://www.lua.org/russian.html or ru.lua.org subdomain for us? Hosting is not problem.

WBR,
Sol.

Привет

I am also interested in this. Lua is very popular in Russian speaking community.



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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Egor Skriptunoff-2
In reply to this post by Sol
On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Sol wrote:
we have a complete translation 5.3 reference.

IMO, the following URL may be a reasonable place for it:
https://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/ru/

But all the other site features (forum, etc.) may be not suitable for lua.org format.
What about trying to contact lua.ru owners to reanimate the site?

-- Egor
Sol
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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Sol
2017-04-16 4:02 GMT+03:00 Egor Skriptunoff <[hidden email]>:
> What about trying to contact lua.ru owners to reanimate the site?
Well, I tried. "Project alive and used for internal needs", they says.
"we don't plan to refuse it". And "we don't understand benefits for
you and for us".

Sol
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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Sol
In reply to this post by Egor Skriptunoff-2
2017-04-16 4:02 GMT+03:00 Egor Skriptunoff <[hidden email]>:

> But all the other site features (forum, etc.) may be not suitable for

Same as WordPress ten year ago. But now russian WordPress team has all
of them at ru.wordpress.org.  Good example, I think :)

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Egor Skriptunoff-2
In reply to this post by Sol
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Sol wrote:
"Project alive and used for internal needs", they says.
"we don't plan to refuse it".

Hmm...
They'd better say "What Is Dead May Never Die" :-)
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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Martin
In reply to this post by Sol
On 04/15/2017 01:30 PM, Sol wrote:
> Realy, I want to deal Russian version and restart Russian community.
> At first, we have a complete translation 5.3 reference.

Correctly translated reference manual is a good starting point.

But I think the end point is anyway English documentation and
this mail-list. All projects I've encountered have very bleak,
incomplete and often outdated non-English language materials
(with exception for materials in a language of project maintainers).

-- Martin

Sol
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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Sol
2017-04-17 5:26 GMT+03:00 Martin <[hidden email]>:

> But I think the end point is anyway English documentation and
> this mail-list. All projects I've encountered have very bleak,
> incomplete and often outdated non-English language materials
> (with exception for materials in a language of project maintainers).

Local communities already exist. Isolated and unfriendly. Do you think
this is the right way for the development of the programming
community?

Sol
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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Sol
Sorry again, I mean:

> Local communities already exist. Isolated and unfriendly. Do you think
> this is the right way for the community EVOLUTION?

Damned the GoogleTranslate :)
(and - yes, I have a some trouble with english)

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Jay Carlson
In reply to this post by Egor Skriptunoff-2
On Apr 16, 2017 6:52 AM, "Egor Skriptunoff" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Sol wrote:
"Project alive and used for internal needs", they says.
"we don't plan to refuse it".

Hmm...
They'd better say "What Is Dead May Never Die" :-)

"And with strange eons, even death may be considered damage and routed around."

Uh I mean, "even death can die." Damned cultists and their orthodoxy.

Jay Carlson

[Google fhtagn! Google is the USENET Eater Of Lines! Iä Google!]
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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Martin
In reply to this post by Sol
On 04/16/2017 10:53 PM, Sol wrote:
> Sorry again, I mean:
>
>> Local communities already exist. Isolated and unfriendly. Do you think
>> this is the right way for the community EVOLUTION?
>
> Damned the GoogleTranslate :)
> (and - yes, I have a some trouble with english)

I don't completely understand you point. You wish to add Russian
version of Lua 5.3 Reference Manual? I consider this is a good thing.
But what further? Do you wish to separate community by native
languages?

Do you plan to translate all that nice English materials like
Lua FAQ by Steve Donovan (https://github.com/stevedonovan/luafaq) ?

I think that if somebody was able to learn Lua he definitely is able
to learn English either.

And lets assume that some Burundi guy created some cool project.
With documentation and support completely in Swahili. Should we
assume that most community will learn Swahili just to read
documentation for this project?

Again, my position is support sharing any information about Lua,
especially in easily understandable forms. But I think creating
separated language-communities is a dead end.

-- Martin

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Jorge Visca
On 18/04/17 05:57, Martin wrote:
> I think that if somebody was able to learn Lua he definitely is able
> to learn English either.

Uh, most certainly not.

Newbies usually have great difficulty explaining their own doubts about
programming. It's like explaining a mental process, but involving two
languages: their native and the programming language. It's hard enough
when they are confident in at least one of them. Also, frequently they
feel intimidated by the possibility they're saying "something stupid".
This is violently composed when they have to handle themselves in a
third language.

Having said that, I always have my students/colleagues name and comment
everything in english, even if it is broken.

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Dirk Laurie-2
In reply to this post by Martin
2017-04-18 10:57 GMT+02:00 Martin <[hidden email]>:

> Again, my position is support sharing any information about Lua,
> especially in easily understandable forms. But I think creating
> separated language-communities is a dead end.

"The international scientific language is broken English." — Whispered
remark by an British-born American in the audience to me at
a conference in Belgium about 1990 during a lecture by a very
good mathematician from the Far East.

The only partial exception I make to Martin's position is when "separated"
is replaced by "local", and in this respect the Lua community in Russia
is certainly active enough to justify diverting some of their time and energy
to the creation of documentation for their newbies.

If lua.ru does not wish to cooperate, create lua.org.ru or whatever.

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Nagaev Boris
In reply to this post by Jorge Visca
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 4:54 AM, Jorge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 18/04/17 05:57, Martin wrote:
>>
>> I think that if somebody was able to learn Lua he definitely is able
>> to learn English either.
>
>
> Uh, most certainly not.
>
> Newbies usually have great difficulty explaining their own doubts about
> programming. It's like explaining a mental process, but involving two
> languages: their native and the programming language. It's hard enough when
> they are confident in at least one of them. Also, frequently they feel
> intimidated by the possibility they're saying "something stupid". This is
> violently composed when they have to handle themselves in a third language.
>
> Having said that, I always have my students/colleagues name and comment
> everything in english, even if it is broken.
>

>From my experience, written English is much easier to understand than
spoken English. Fortunately all the manuals and other materials about
Lua are written. (And talks are done in English my ears parse easily.)

--
Best regards,
Boris Nagaev

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Nagaev Boris
In reply to this post by Martin
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 04/16/2017 10:53 PM, Sol wrote:
>> Sorry again, I mean:
>>
>>> Local communities already exist. Isolated and unfriendly. Do you think
>>> this is the right way for the community EVOLUTION?
>>
>> Damned the GoogleTranslate :)
>> (and - yes, I have a some trouble with english)
>
> I don't completely understand you point. You wish to add Russian
> version of Lua 5.3 Reference Manual? I consider this is a good thing.
> But what further? Do you wish to separate community by native
> languages?
>
> Do you plan to translate all that nice English materials like
> Lua FAQ by Steve Donovan (https://github.com/stevedonovan/luafaq) ?
>
> I think that if somebody was able to learn Lua he definitely is able
> to learn English either.
>
> And lets assume that some Burundi guy created some cool project.
> With documentation and support completely in Swahili. Should we
> assume that most community will learn Swahili just to read
> documentation for this project?

I see more and more projects on Github that I can't use just because
everything is in Chinese. I saw also a couple of projects with Spanish
only docs. I have never seen a project with Russian only docs. Let us
maintain this.

> Again, my position is support sharing any information about Lua,
> especially in easily understandable forms. But I think creating
> separated language-communities is a dead end.
>
> -- Martin
>



--
Best regards,
Boris Nagaev

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Viacheslav Usov
In reply to this post by Sol
On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 10:40 PM, Sol <[hidden email]> wrote:
Excuse me, second attempt.

2017-04-15 23:30 GMT+03:00 Sol <[hidden email]>:
> Greetings!
>
> lua.org have a portugal version at https://www.lua.org/portugues.html
> How I can contact to site webmaster? I have "an offer he can't refuse" :)
> Realy, I want to deal Russian version and restart Russian community.
> At first, we have a complete translation 5.3 reference.
> lua.ru is oudated and abandoned.
>
> What about https://www.lua.org/russian.html or ru.lua.org subdomain for us?

The Portuguese content at lua.org is understandable and is possible essentially because lua.org is maintained by a small group of people who can also ensure that the additional Portuguese content is good. The same cannot be done for other languages, and demanding that, or demanding that the control over lua.org or some of its parts be given to other people is unreasonable.

What is reasonable has already been suggested: create some other web site; you said hosting was not a problem, so that should be easy for you, make sure it has good quality content in Russian about Lua, then I am pretty sure it will be linked from lua.org.

Decentralisation is good.

Cheers,
V.
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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Roberto Ierusalimschy
> The Portuguese content at lua.org is understandable and is possible
> essentially because lua.org is maintained by a small group of people who
> can also ensure that the additional Portuguese content is good. The same
> cannot be done for other languages, and demanding that, or demanding that
> the control over lua.org or some of its parts be given to other people is
> unreasonable.
>
> What is reasonable has already been suggested: create some other web site;
> you said hosting was not a problem, so that should be easy for you, make
> sure it has good quality content in Russian about Lua, then I am pretty
> sure it will be linked from lua.org.

+1.

-- Roberto

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Re: Russian section of lua.org

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Viacheslav Usov
> What is reasonable has already been suggested: create some other web site;
> you said hosting was not a problem, so that should be easy for you, make
> sure it has good quality content in Russian about Lua, then I am pretty
> sure it will be linked from lua.org.

In particular, a Russian translation of the Lua 5.3 reference manual would
be linked to in
         http://www.lua.org/manual/
         http://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/
just like it is for Lua 5.1.