Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Leonardo Maciel-2
Interview with managing director of TIOBE Software:

"Recently, Lua was the hype, but now other scripting languages such as
ActionScript, Groovy, and Factor are about to claim a top 20 position"

http://www.ddj.com/development-tools/207401593;jsessionid=VQEZY4FPF15GGQSNDL
RSKH0CJUNN2JVN?_requestid=558756



--
Leonardo Maciel <[hidden email]>
MS Candidate, Computer Science Department, PUC-Rio, Brazil



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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Stefan Sandberg
...and basic is #3, go figure..

Leonardo S. A. Maciel wrote:
Interview with managing director of TIOBE Software:

"Recently, Lua was the hype, but now other scripting languages such as
ActionScript, Groovy, and Factor are about to claim a top 20 position"

http://www.ddj.com/development-tools/207401593;jsessionid=VQEZY4FPF15GGQSNDL
RSKH0CJUNN2JVN?_requestid=558756



--
Leonardo Maciel <[hidden email]>
MS Candidate, Computer Science Department, PUC-Rio, Brazil





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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

David Kastrup
Stefan Sandberg <[hidden email]> writes:

> ...and basic is #3, go figure..

There is still a lot being done in Visual Basic AFAIK.

-- 
David Kastrup


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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Javier Guerra Giraldez
In reply to this post by Leonardo Maciel-2
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:45 AM, Leonardo S. A. Maciel
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Interview with managing director of TIOBE Software:
>
>  "Recently, Lua was the hype, but now other scripting languages such as
>  ActionScript, Groovy, and Factor are about to claim a top 20 position"

isn't ActionScript Adobe's JavaScript dialect?  should it be counted separately?

obviously the rise is because it's the Flex-Air language.  nice
frameworks, but the language still stinks

-- 
Javier

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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Stefan Sandberg
Actually , AS3 is not that bad at all...

What I'd really like to know is how D ended up that far up the list.. I seriously cant imagine people using D more than lua, for example..


Javier Guerra wrote:
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:45 AM, Leonardo S. A. Maciel
<[hidden email]> wrote:
Interview with managing director of TIOBE Software:

 "Recently, Lua was the hype, but now other scripting languages such as
 ActionScript, Groovy, and Factor are about to claim a top 20 position"

isn't ActionScript Adobe's JavaScript dialect?  should it be counted separately?

obviously the rise is because it's the Flex-Air language.  nice
frameworks, but the language still stinks



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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

BogdanM
I know I'm repeating myself, but what I'd _really_ like to know is how Logo ended up _before_ Lua ...

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Sandberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Actually , AS3 is not that bad at all...

What I'd really like to know is how D ended up that far up the list..  I seriously cant imagine people using D more than lua, for example..



Javier Guerra wrote:
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:45 AM, Leonardo S. A. Maciel
<[hidden email]> wrote:
 
Interview with managing director of TIOBE Software:

 "Recently, Lua was the hype, but now other scripting languages such as
 ActionScript, Groovy, and Factor are about to claim a top 20 position"
   

isn't ActionScript Adobe's _javascript_ dialect?  should it be counted separately?

obviously the rise is because it's the Flex-Air language.  nice
frameworks, but the language still stinks

 


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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

KHMan
In reply to this post by Leonardo Maciel-2
Leonardo S. A. Maciel wrote:
> Interview with managing director of TIOBE Software:
> 
> "Recently, Lua was the hype, but now other scripting languages such as
> ActionScript, Groovy, and Factor are about to claim a top 20 position"

I would put much more value in substance as opposed to, uh, 'hype'.

Like bloggers, TIOBE wants to capture your attention so that you
recall 'TIOBE' each time you want to compare the popularity of
languages. Their list is useful to a certain extent, but let's not
take it too seriously...

What are they looking for? Seeing the other posts discussing
ActionScript, Groovy, Factor, D, it's clear their real interest is...

    Branding.

And I guess they want to be the One True Oracle to anoint new
languages that have cute, uh, 'branding'.

Heh. It's a hoot. :-) I apologize for the cynicism. ;-)

-- 
Cheers,
Kein-Hong Man (esq.)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Javier Guerra Giraldez
In reply to this post by BogdanM
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bogdan Marinescu
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I know I'm repeating myself, but what I'd _really_ like to know is how Logo
> ended up _before_ Lua ...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Sandberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Actually , AS3 is not that bad at all...
> >
> > What I'd really like to know is how D ended up that far up the list..  I
> seriously cant imagine people using D more than lua, for example..


i guess it's because TIOBE doesn't track usage (how could it?); but
something like 'web awareness'.  and logo is certainly more mentioned
than Lua (at least in history :-)

D is a total mystery.

(i like D's ideas, and maybe the implementation; but it doesn't feel
as 'solid' as C, nor as 'fluid' as a good high level language.  it's a
bit like pudding... or something more clumpy... does anybody know's
peruvian "arroz con leche"?)



-- 
Javier

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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Stefan Sandberg
rice & milk? :)

Imo, D is pretty sweet, but it needs more than one compiler, some good old fashioned competition.. it's still in 'proof-of-concept' mode, sortof..

Javier Guerra wrote:
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bogdan Marinescu
<[hidden email]> wrote:
I know I'm repeating myself, but what I'd _really_ like to know is how Logo
ended up _before_ Lua ...



On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Sandberg <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Actually , AS3 is not that bad at all...

What I'd really like to know is how D ended up that far up the list..  I
seriously cant imagine people using D more than lua, for example..


i guess it's because TIOBE doesn't track usage (how could it?); but
something like 'web awareness'.  and logo is certainly more mentioned
than Lua (at least in history :-)

D is a total mystery.

(i like D's ideas, and maybe the implementation; but it doesn't feel
as 'solid' as C, nor as 'fluid' as a good high level language.  it's a
bit like pudding... or something more clumpy... does anybody know's
peruvian "arroz con leche"?)





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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Evan DeMond
In reply to this post by Javier Guerra Giraldez


On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Javier Guerra <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bogdan Marinescu
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I know I'm repeating myself, but what I'd _really_ like to know is how Logo
> ended up _before_ Lua ...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Sandberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Actually , AS3 is not that bad at all...
> >
> > What I'd really like to know is how D ended up that far up the list..  I
> seriously cant imagine people using D more than lua, for example..


i guess it's because TIOBE doesn't track usage (how could it?); but
something like 'web awareness'.  and logo is certainly more mentioned
than Lua (at least in history :-)

D is a total mystery.

(i like D's ideas, and maybe the implementation; but it doesn't feel
as 'solid' as C, nor as 'fluid' as a good high level language.  it's a
bit like pudding... or something more clumpy... does anybody know's
peruvian "arroz con leche"?)

I believe I have had that or something like it =)  ("Rice with milk")

Anyways, yes, TIOBE's index is kind of fun to check out, but it feels a little bit like reading a fashion magazine about programming languages. That seems about as deep an analysis as you're likely to get - it just measures chatter. It's hard to measure usage directly, maybe that'd be better done by means of a mass survey or something?

Maybe it's a good thing, too, you never know - I wonder how much of the chatter that gets measured here comes from people posting for help with problems/trouble/confusion with their language?
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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

David Kastrup
In reply to this post by BogdanM
"Bogdan Marinescu" <[hidden email]> writes:

> I know I'm repeating myself, but what I'd _really_ like to know is how
> Logo ended up _before_ Lua ...

We are talking about web awareness that is computationally determined.
So I should not be all too much surprised when languages with common
meaning carrying names like "basic", "C", "D", "logo" get inflated
scores.

"fortran" on the other hand should get what it deserves.

-- 
David Kastrup


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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Evan DeMond
In reply to this post by Evan DeMond
Also, Pascal jumped up six places...?
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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Javier Guerra Giraldez
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Evan DeMond <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Also, Pascal jumped up six places...?

?!?!?!?     now _that_ is a mystery.

i mean, AS3 is adobe's latest fad, D is "C's evolution", logo is used
as an example in history.... but pascal? does anybody knows where is
it used/mentioned/feared?


-- 
Javier

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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Jim Whitehead II
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Javier Guerra <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Evan DeMond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  > Also, Pascal jumped up six places...?
>
>  ?!?!?!?     now _that_ is a mystery.
>
>  i mean, AS3 is adobe's latest fad, D is "C's evolution", logo is used
>  as an example in history.... but pascal? does anybody knows where is
>  it used/mentioned/feared?

>From the original article, TIOBE just added youtube as a factor into
the rankings, which affects the overall results by 4%:

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=pascal+program
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=c+program

- Jim

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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Enrico Colombini
In reply to this post by David Kastrup
David Kastrup wrote:
We are talking about web awareness that is computationally determined.
So I should not be all too much surprised when languages with common
meaning carrying names like "basic", "C", "D", "logo" get inflated
scores.

Basic history: Blaise Pascal never met D'Artagnan :-)

Also, embedded applications of Lua don't usually get much publicity. Not among end users, anyway, unless user-side scripting access is provided (e.g. WoW).

  Enrico


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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Tony Finch
In reply to this post by BogdanM
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008, Bogdan Marinescu wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Sandberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > What I'd really like to know is how D ended up that far up the list..  I
> > seriously cant imagine people using D more than lua, for example..
>
> I know I'm repeating myself, but what I'd _really_ like to know is how Logo
> ended up _before_ Lua ...

TIOBE searches for "foo programming", so if your language is commonly
known as "the foo programming language" (like D) then you're on to a
winner. Lua has the disadvantage of its main textbook being called
"Programming in Lua", which will hopefully be countered when "Lua
Programming Gems" comes out.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <[hidden email]>  http://dotat.at/
NORTH FITZROY SOLE LUNDY FASTNET IRISH SEA SHANNON SOUTHERLY 5 TO 7,
OCCASIONALLY GALE 8 IN NORTH FITZROY, SOLE AND SHANNON, DECREASING 4 LATER.
MODERATE OR ROUGH , OCCASIONALLY VERY ROUGH EXCEPT LUNDY AND IRISH SEA.
OCCASIONAL RAIN OR DRIZZLE WITH FOG PATCHES. MODERATE OCCASIONALLY VERY POOR.

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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Mike Pall-84
In reply to this post by BogdanM
Bogdan Marinescu wrote:
> I know I'm repeating myself, but what I'd _really_ like to know is how Logo
> ended up _before_ Lua ...

I bet the "Windows Vista Logo Program" helped a lot. ;-)

--Mike

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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Enrico Colombini
In reply to this post by Tony Finch
Tony Finch wrote:
TIOBE searches for "foo programming"

So I guess titles like this one could be a bit misinterpreted:
http://www.holbornbooks.co.uk/books/178687/Yashavant-Kanetkar/Basic-Programming-in-C%2B%2B/

  Enrico


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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Mike Crowe
In reply to this post by Leonardo Maciel-2
Factor?  A forth-stack based derivative is approaching the top 20?  Talk about hype....

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Leonardo S. A. Maciel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Interview with managing director of TIOBE Software:

"Recently, Lua was the hype, but now other scripting languages such as
ActionScript, Groovy, and Factor are about to claim a top 20 position"

http://www.ddj.com/development-tools/207401593;jsessionid=VQEZY4FPF15GGQSNDL
RSKH0CJUNN2JVN?_requestid=558756




--
Leonardo Maciel <[hidden email]>
MS Candidate, Computer Science Department, PUC-Rio, Brazil



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Re: lua not anymore in tiobe top 20

Stephen Kellett
Mike Crowe wrote:
Factor? A forth-stack based derivative is approaching the top 20? Talk about hype....

I've got to agree.

When I first read about Factor (on this list actually) I checked it out.

When I see a language for the first time I'm looking for ease of writing, ease of maintenance, features/benefits that reduce liklihood of errors, features/benefits that increase productivity and allow succinct elegant design. Above all it must be easy to read and write.

Factor failed on these counts. Reverse polish increases liklihood of errors (if it was good, all calculators would still be using it, just like the original ones did). As for readability, er, well, where do I start?

At that point my interest in Factor faded. It won't be a raging success, even if it does have its merits.

This topic (TIOBE) hit Slashdot today. Lots of people denying that C is dying (it has the same ranking today as it did last year), etc, etc.

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