Plua for other platforms?

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Plua for other platforms?

David McNab
Hi Marcio et al,

Do you have plans in mind to implement Plua for other platforms, such
as PocketPC and embedded linux (which Palm is switching to, and
dumping its PalmOS 6 plans)?

Or will Plua only ever be for PalmOS?

Cheers
David






 
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Re: Plua for other platforms?

migueletto
Hi,

> Do you have plans in mind to implement Plua for other platforms, such
> as PocketPC and embedded linux (which Palm is switching to, and
> dumping its PalmOS 6 plans)?
>
> Or will Plua only ever be for PalmOS?

I have no plans to support PocketPC. Windows is just not the kind of
platform that attracts me.

When (if) PalmSource drops its proprietary OS and moves to Linux,
things may change drastically. Since Lua compiles out of the box for
Linux, a Plua-like application for "Palm-Linux" will be much easier to
do, and I expect that other developers will also do it.

Regards,
Marcio.





 
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Re: Re: Plua for other platforms?

Stefan Vorkoetter
migueletto wrote:

> I have no plans to support PocketPC. Windows is just not the kind of
> platform that attracts me.

That's too bad, because most of us probably dislike Windows/PocketPC
too. :-)

If PLua existed for that platform and tried to be 100% compatible with
the PalmOS version, then we'd automatically get PocketPC versions of our
apps. It would be nice to have a truly portable PDA development tool.

--
Stefan Vorkoetter
Capable Computing, Inc.


 
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Re: Plua for other platforms?

David McNab
--- In [hidden email], Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan@...> wrote:

>
> migueletto wrote:
>
> > I have no plans to support PocketPC. Windows is just not the kind of
> > platform that attracts me.
>
> That's too bad, because most of us probably dislike Windows/PocketPC
> too. :-)
>
> If PLua existed for that platform and tried to be 100% compatible with
> the PalmOS version, then we'd automatically get PocketPC versions of
our
> apps. It would be nice to have a truly portable PDA development tool.

I second that.

Implementing a Plua back-end for windoze pocket PC only needs to be
done once, but the benefit can be enjoyed over and over. Well worth
thinking about.

I tended not to enjoy PocketPC devices myself, having last tried iPaqs
around 2002 - they're so heavy, and the battery runs out way sooner -
but they do have so much more memory and grunt. But this may well
change soon, with improving technology.

Cheers
David






 
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Re: Plua for other platforms?

migueletto
Hi,

> Implementing a Plua back-end for windoze pocket PC only needs to be
> done once, but the benefit can be enjoyed over and over. Well worth
> thinking about.

You mean, implement once and maintain forever :-)

Seriously, besides taste, the matter with Windows is also of practical
reasons. I do not know the PocketPC platform, and I have not done any
programming for Windows in general. So I would not be able to port
Plua to this platform.

Regards,
Marcio.






 
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Re: Re: Plua for other platforms?

LarryT-3
"migueletto" <[hidden email]> writes:

> > Implementing a Plua back-end for windoze pocket PC only needs to be
> > done once, but the benefit can be enjoyed over and over. Well worth
> > thinking about.
>
> You mean, implement once and maintain forever :-)
>
> Seriously, besides taste, the matter with Windows is also of practical
> reasons. I do not know the PocketPC platform, and I have not done any
> programming for Windows in general. So I would not be able to port
> Plua to this platform.

We've all seen bigger projects than plua get bogged down with windoze
ports and lose a lot of their steam.  Plus, even if plua were
portable, most plua applications probably would not be.

-larry



 
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Re: Re: Plua for other platforms?

Marcelo G Huerta
In reply to this post by Stefan Vorkoetter
El 17/02/2006 a las 12:06, Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]> dijo,
en su mensaje "[plua] Re: Plua for other platforms?":

> If PLua existed for that platform and tried to be 100% compatible
> with the PalmOS version, then we'd automatically get PocketPC
> versions of our apps.

What?!

Different OS, different binary executable format, different execution
paradigm... How come a "cross platform" Plua would allow
automa(g)ically have "PocketPC versions of our apps"?

This is like pretending that a binary version of a Linux program run
unchanged in Windows only by creating a separate library.

--
                    o-=< Marcelo >=-o



 
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Re: Plua for other platforms?

burkemat


Take a look at LuaPocket, http://luaforge.net/projects/luapocket/

I haven't done much with it (since I don't do Windows that much) but
did poke around at it a few months ago.  Seemed reasonably stable.

It shouldn't be too difficult to get 90-ish% compatability by writing
a library to mimic the Plua API.

Matt







 
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Re: Re: Plua for other platforms?

Stefan Vorkoetter
In reply to this post by Marcelo G Huerta
Marcelo G Huerta wrote:

> El 17/02/2006 a las 12:06, Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]> dijo,
>
>>If PLua existed for that platform and tried to be 100% compatible
>>with the PalmOS version, then we'd automatically get PocketPC
>>versions of our apps.
>
> What?!
>
> Different OS, different binary executable format, different execution
> paradigm... How come a "cross platform" Plua would allow
> automa(g)ically have "PocketPC versions of our apps"?

PLua code is interpreted. The PLua runtime for Palm OS and Windows would
be different, but the actual applications could run the same code.

> This is like pretending that a binary version of a Linux program run
> unchanged in Windows only by creating a separate library.

I do this all the time with code written in the Maple language. The code
I write on a Windows machine runs on a Linux machine (or HP/UX, Sun
SPARC, Cray, whatever) without changes. The same thing happens with Perl
code, Java code, etc.

--
Stefan Vorkoetter
Capable Computing, Inc.


 
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Re: Re: Plua for other platforms?

Marcelo G Huerta
El 18/02/2006 a las 13:12, Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]> dijo,
en su mensaje "[plua] Re: Plua for other platforms?":

> I do this all the time with code written in the Maple language. The
> code I write on a Windows machine runs on a Linux machine (or HP/UX,
> Sun SPARC, Cray, whatever) without changes. The same thing happens
> with Perl code, Java code, etc.

Uh-huh. How come you can execute a PRC on a Windows machine? That
would be news.


--
                    o-=< Marcelo >=-o



 
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Re: Re: Plua for other platforms?

Stefan Vorkoetter
Marcelo G Huerta wrote:

> El 18/02/2006 a las 13:12, Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]> dijo,
> en su mensaje "[plua] Re: Plua for other platforms?":
>
>>I do this all the time with code written in the Maple language. The
>>code I write on a Windows machine runs on a Linux machine (or HP/UX,
>>Sun SPARC, Cray, whatever) without changes. The same thing happens
>>with Perl code, Java code, etc.
>
> Uh-huh. How come you can execute a PRC on a Windows machine? That
> would be news.

I assume you mean "can't", not "can". The reason you can't is because a
PRC is a file of machine instructions for a Palm Device, not for an
Intel chip or some sort of interpreter.

But in fact, you _can_ execute a PRC on a Windows machine if you run the
Palm Emulator. In that case, the whole Palm device is emulated, but
there's no reason someone couldn't write an emulator that didn't look
like a picture of a Palm, and made the Palm apps look kind of like
Windows apps. Of course, there'd be little point, since Palm-like apps
aren't really suitable for use on a desktop.

--
Stefan Vorkoetter
Capable Computing, Inc.


 
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Re: Re: Plua for other platforms?

Marcelo G Huerta
El 19/02/2006 a las 23:06, Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]> dijo,
en su mensaje "[plua] Re: Plua for other platforms?":

> I assume you mean "can't", not "can".

English is not my mother tongue. My intention was to say "it would be
news to me to know that an *unchanged* Palm application can run in a
Windows machine". (Besides emulation, which did not enter in the
original equation.)

Also, for clarification s/Windows/Windows CE/.

The original proposition, by someone which I don't remember now and as
I understood it, was that if Plua were crossplatform, automagically
the PRC created for Palm handhelds would run, *without any change*, in
a Pocket PC handheld. That was what I was objecting to. If we are
talking about different environments, conversions from PRC to EXE
files or alternate means of generating the said EXE file, and the
like, I can admit that with non-trivial amounts of efforts (which, as
we have already read, Marcio is not able nor willing to incur, and,
may I add, rightly so) it could happen.

However, as the Plua code is not open source, I'm guessing someone
would have to invest the equivalent to the time and effort Marcio has
already devoted to the development in the Plua platform to create a
solution that uses native WinCE widgets (which are a totally different
animal compared to the Palm ones). I know Plua is giving to many of us
an immensely useful tool for literally no cost, but that has to reach
a limit, and I postulate that this is it. If someone needs a WinCE
Plua equivalent, I presume it would be created by someone else who
needs to scratch his own itch.

Of course, as the number of open source tools for developing for the
WinCE platform is less, I would bet that the hypotetical WinCE
solution would also *not* be open source. But that's just me and my
crystal ball, which may need to be recalibrated.

--
                    o-=< Marcelo >=-o



 
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Re: Re: Plua for other platforms?

Stefan Vorkoetter
Marcelo G Huerta wrote:

> El 19/02/2006 a las 23:06, Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]> dijo,
> en su mensaje "[plua] Re: Plua for other platforms?":
>
>
>>I assume you mean "can't", not "can".
>
>
> English is not my mother tongue. My intention was to say "it would be
> news to me to know that an *unchanged* Palm application can run in a
> Windows machine". (Besides emulation, which did not enter in the
> original equation.)

Actually, it does enter into the picture. Lua runs on a virtual machine,
which is emulated on every real machine for which Lua is available.

> The original proposition, by someone which I don't remember now and as
> I understood it, was that if Plua were crossplatform, automagically
> the PRC created for Palm handhelds would run, *without any change*, in
> a Pocket PC handheld.

That was me. I didn't say that the PRC would run. I said that the PLua
code would run.

--
Stefan Vorkoetter
Capable Computing, Inc.


 
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