PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

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PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Bruce O. Benson

Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second Edition, in electronic form?

I do know that Beginning Lua Porgramming is available electronically, but I'd love to be able to open a pdf of the classic in its current edition.

Thanks,
Bruce.
--
Bruce O. Benson, mailto:[hidden email] | http://www.tux.org
Donating spare CPU to science: Folding@home Team Debian (#2019)
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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Martin Gadbois
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Hash: SHA1

Bruce O. Benson wrote:
> 
> Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second
> Edition, in electronic form?
> 

+1

I bought the book, but I still use the 1st edition online as it is
easier to navigate...

- --
==============         +---------------------------------------------+
Martin Gadbois         |    You are            -- J. Steakley,       |
Sr. SW Designer        |    What you do             Armor, 1984      |
Colubris Networks Inc. |    When it counts.                          |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIMw6oMPkSU9icdA0RAsrtAKCXhD/NNTTXeuDsYcUpgYNneTTzbACgzPDl
8FHUyfsLfGeu791Harf1d28=
=2/jh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Vyacheslav Egorov
In reply to this post by Bruce O. Benson
Bruce O. Benson write:

Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second Edition, in electronic form?
Once it will become available for purchase, it will also become available for free download. That's how information flow nowadays. I am also eager to put my hands on such an electronic copy, but do not want to buy one...

--
e.v.e

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Bruce O. Benson
In reply to this post by Martin Gadbois
On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Martin Gadbois <[hidden email]> wrote:

Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>
> Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second
> Edition, in electronic form?

I bought the book, but I still use the 1st edition online as it is
easier to navigate...

Me too.  I really enjoyed the treeware version of the 2nd ed., but constantly look at the first one online.
I'd pay for the 2nd one in electronic form.
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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Gilnei M. Oliveira-2
In reply to this post by Martin Gadbois
+1

2008/5/20 Martin Gadbois <[hidden email]>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>>
>> Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second
>> Edition, in electronic form?
>>
>
> +1
>
> I bought the book, but I still use the 1st edition online as it is
> easier to navigate...
>
> - --
> ==============         +---------------------------------------------+
> Martin Gadbois         |    You are            -- J. Steakley,       |
> Sr. SW Designer        |    What you do             Armor, 1984      |
> Colubris Networks Inc. |    When it counts.                          |
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFIMw6oMPkSU9icdA0RAsrtAKCXhD/NNTTXeuDsYcUpgYNneTTzbACgzPDl
> 8FHUyfsLfGeu791Harf1d28=
> =2/jh
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>



-- 
(pt_BR; [hidden email])

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

BogdanM
+1, +2, +3 :)

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 9:50 PM, Gilnei M. Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:
> +1
>
> 2008/5/20 Martin Gadbois <[hidden email]>:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Bruce O. Benson wrote:
>>>
>>> Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second
>>> Edition, in electronic form?
>>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I bought the book, but I still use the 1st edition online as it is
>> easier to navigate...
>>
>> - --
>> ==============         +---------------------------------------------+
>> Martin Gadbois         |    You are            -- J. Steakley,       |
>> Sr. SW Designer        |    What you do             Armor, 1984      |
>> Colubris Networks Inc. |    When it counts.                          |
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>>
>> iD8DBQFIMw6oMPkSU9icdA0RAsrtAKCXhD/NNTTXeuDsYcUpgYNneTTzbACgzPDl
>> 8FHUyfsLfGeu791Harf1d28=
>> =2/jh
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>
>
>
> --
> (pt_BR; [hidden email])
>

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Roberto Ierusalimschy
In reply to this post by Bruce O. Benson
> Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second Edition,
> in electronic form?

I've always wanted to make it available in electronic form, but I could
not find a reasonable way to do it. What format? How to sell?

-- Roberto

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Fwd: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Joseph Stewart
>
> I've always wanted to make it available in electronic form, but I could
> not find a reasonable way to do it. What format(1)? How to sell(2)?

Perhaps I'm simplifying this but why not:

1. PDF with embedded unique serial number per purchaser (to shame the
person who gives away the doc... are the docs generated with LaTeX?,
surely this could be automated).
2. PayPal.

-joe

-- 
If it ain't broke, break it. How else are you going to figure out how it works?

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Ralph Hempel
In reply to this post by Roberto Ierusalimschy
Roberto Ierusalimschy wrote:
Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second Edition,
in electronic form?

I've always wanted to make it available in electronic form, but I could
not find a reasonable way to do it. What format? How to sell?

Have a look at the Drumlin PDF reader and secure PDF encoding
service. It might make some sense.

If you release the PDF without some form of encoding it will
be hacked, serial number or not.

Ralph


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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Bruce O. Benson
In reply to this post by Roberto Ierusalimschy
Good news:  you know the publisher ;-)

-- One way is:
Ebooks - uses encrypted pdf to protect copyright
http://www.ebooks.com/information/authors.asp  [which gets authors to pester their publishers...in this case, you, so...]
"please ask your publisher to contact us at [hidden email]"
which may end up sending you here... http://publishers.ebookscorporation.com/application.asp

-- Another way:
Amazon
They state:  eBooks
If you are a publisher or author and hold the digital rights to a book, you can make it available as an eBook on Amazon.com [links to the following...]

http://dtp.amazon.com/mn/signin

I wouldn't be surprised if they need you to use an Adobe product for conversion to an encryptable intermediate, and put it on some encryption server (Adobe content server) as directed by the online retailer.
http://www.adobe.com/epaper/ebooks/publisher.html
http://www.adobe.com/epaper/ebooks/ebookmall/index.html

This isn't an endorsement of any particular online publisher or mechanism.  I have not published online.

Thanks Roberto.  I'll be happy to be the first test purchaser if something ever becomes set up!

Yours,
Bruce.

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Roberto Ierusalimschy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second Edition,
> in electronic form?

I've always wanted to make it available in electronic form, but I could
not find a reasonable way to do it. What format? How to sell?

-- Roberto



--
Bruce O. Benson, mailto:[hidden email] | http://www.tux.org
Donating spare CPU to science: Folding@home Team Debian (#2019)
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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Ico Doornekamp
In reply to this post by Ralph Hempel

* On 2008-05-20 Ralph Hempel <[hidden email]> wrote  :

> Roberto Ierusalimschy wrote:
>>> Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second Edition,
>>> in electronic form?
>>
>> I've always wanted to make it available in electronic form, but I could
>> not find a reasonable way to do it. What format? How to sell?
>
> Have a look at the Drumlin PDF reader and secure PDF encoding

DRM simply does not work. Even *with* any form of encoding, it will be
hacked. If it can be displayed on a screen, it can - and will - be
copied.

-- 
:wq
^X^Cy^K^X^C^C^C^C

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

BogdanM
In reply to this post by Ralph Hempel
Pragmatic Programmers (http://pragprog.com/) sold me an electronic
edition of "Programming in Erlang". It's customized, it has my name on
each page (along with other information) and probably other elements
of identification that I'm not aware of. I'm not an expert by any
measure, but it seems well protected to me. (Usual disclaimer: I'm not
afiliated with them in anyway).

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Ralph Hempel
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Roberto Ierusalimschy wrote:
>>>
>>> Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second
>>> Edition,
>>> in electronic form?
>>
>> I've always wanted to make it available in electronic form, but I could
>> not find a reasonable way to do it. What format? How to sell?
>
> Have a look at the Drumlin PDF reader and secure PDF encoding
> service. It might make some sense.
>
> If you release the PDF without some form of encoding it will
> be hacked, serial number or not.
>
> Ralph
>
>

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

BogdanM
In reply to this post by Ico Doornekamp
>
> DRM simply does not work. Even *with* any form of encoding, it will be
> hacked. If it can be displayed on a screen, it can - and will - be
> copied.
Everything can be hacked, really, it's just a matter of how difficult
it is. Some sort of "visual watermark" (for example the customer's
name and other identification elements appearing as part of the
background on each page, but without interfering too much with the
actual document content) is generally pretty tough to break.

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Veli-Pekka Tätilä
In reply to this post by Ralph Hempel
Ralph Hempel wrote:
Roberto Ierusalimschy wrote:
> > Anybody know if there are plans to sell Programming In Lua, Second
> > Edition, in electronic form?
> I've always wanted to make it available in electronic form, but I could
> not find a reasonable way to do it. What format? How to sell?
Have a look at the Drumlin PDF reader and secure PDF encoding
service. It might make some sense.
One major benefit of an e-book is accessibility. Being legally blind reading a normal book for the sighted involves having to scan the pages in manually one by one and run the thing through OCR. Even so, errors remain, and these are often vital in program code. An electronic version has none of these disadvantages and is directly screen reader accessible if done right.

And that's a big if. PDF copies that do have accessibility or plain text copying disabled due to DRM paranoia simply won't be accessible at all. But then again, if you go with accessibility, nothing would stop you from writing a screen reader or speech synth that rips content rather than just reading it. also even though technically accessible I've seen PDFs lacking spaces, producing garbage or being unreadable due to poorly tagged multi-column layouts in plain text. Most folks don't know how to make PDFs accessible.

I've asked and Amazon's PDF e-books are not accessible to the blind. MobiPocket lacks screen reader support and LIT is not screen reader readable in the first place.

When I read Higher ORder Perl I bought the physical copy and given scanned receipts and such, the publisher was willing to send me an e-book based on it.

--
With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä


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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Peter Jacobi
In reply to this post by Roberto Ierusalimschy
Roberto, All,


On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Roberto Ierusalimschy
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I've always wanted to make it available in electronic form, but I could
> not find a reasonable way to do it. What format? How to sell?

The NumPy guide is sold as PDF without technical copy protection, see:

http://www.tramy.us/

The idea of a "world price" may (or may not) help the acceptance
of really paying for the book.

I don't know how good this trust method works, perhaps you can
ask Travis Oliphant himself about his experience.


Regards,
Peter

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Re: Fwd: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Tony Finch
In reply to this post by Joseph Stewart
On Tue, 20 May 2008, Joseph Stewart wrote:
>
> 1. PDF with embedded unique serial number per purchaser

That's what the Pragmatic Programmers do for the electronic editions of
their books.

> 2. PayPal.

:-(

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <[hidden email]>  http://dotat.at/
SHANNON ROCKALL: SOUTHEASTERLY 5 TO 7, OCCASIONALLY GALE 8 AT FIRST. ROUGH OR
VERY ROUGH DECREASING MODERATE OR ROUGH. SQUALLY SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD,
OCCASIONALLY POOR.

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Bertrand Mansion-2

Le 21 mai 08 à 16:30, Tony Finch a écrit :
On Tue, 20 May 2008, Joseph Stewart wrote:

1. PDF with embedded unique serial number per purchaser

That's what the Pragmatic Programmers do for the electronic editions of
their books.

IIRC, http://www.apress.com uses something like the purchaser's email address as a password.

--
Bertrand Mansion
Mamasam
Work : http://www.mamasam.com
Blog : http://golgote.freeflux.net




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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Andrea D'Amore
In reply to this post by BogdanM

On 20/mag/08, at 21:53, Bogdan Marinescu wrote:

Everything can be hacked, really, it's just a matter of how difficult
it is. Some sort of "visual watermark" (for example the customer's
name and other identification elements appearing as part of the
background on each page, but without interfering too much with the
actual document content) is generally pretty tough to break.

My 2 cents but I do agree with Ico, main point being what your audience is.

PiL readers on this list or people who do actually develop as job are probably willing to buy the ebook even if it could be easily obtained illegally. Other people, those who choose to get it illegally, probably wouldn't have bought a hardprinted copy anyway. I doubt PiL2 would lose many customers due to piracy, on the opposite side it could gain a (maybe unwanted) greater popularity.

Moreover consider that there are just people who like printed book more.

It's obviously all up to Roberto.

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Matt Campbell-4
In reply to this post by Bertrand Mansion-2
Bertrand Mansion wrote:
IIRC, http://www.apress.com uses something like the purchaser's email address as a password.

I've bought a book from Apress, so I'm familiar with this protection scheme. Since Veli-Pekka discussed accessibility, I thought I should mention that this protection scheme doesn't cause a problem with the major screen readers on Windows, though it may be a problem on other platforms. Still, the accessibility problems with untagged PDF remain; are there any open-source tools that can convert a document from LaTeX or DocBook to Tagged PDF?

Matt

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Re: PIL 2ed, electronic version purchase?

Philippe Lhoste
In reply to this post by Andrea D'Amore
On 21/05/2008 17:37, Andrea D'Amore wrote:
PiL readers on this list or people who do actually develop as job are probably willing to buy the ebook even if it could be easily obtained illegally. Other people, those who choose to get it illegally, probably wouldn't have bought a hardprinted copy anyway. I doubt PiL2 would lose many customers due to piracy, on the opposite side it could gain a (maybe unwanted) greater popularity.

Funny, I was about to make the exact same remark.
The kid wanting to improve his WoW scripting knowledge might not want to pay for a book, so the fact he gets it illegally won't really hurt the sales of Roberto.

That's why I always smile when I see Word or Photoshop editors stating they loose millions due to piracy. Given the price tag of these softwares, I doubt they will sell that much even if they were totally impossible to copy.

I don't condone piracy, but I think its impact is exaggerated.
Now, there are free alternatives to the above softwares, while Roberto's book is unique. And some companies that can afford such softwares have been found to use pirated softwares helping them to make their business, so I suppose there are dishonest people everywhere.

--
Philippe Lhoste
--  (near) Paris -- France
--  http://Phi.Lho.free.fr
--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --