LuaPlus

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

LuaPlus

Dylan Cuthbert
Hi there,

In the newsgroup archives I found mention of LuaPlus
(http://wwhiz.com/LuaPlus), an extension to Lua for C++ with addin support
for Visual Studio's debugger and a whole lot more.

Anyone else using this?  it looked rather good, especially the Lua core
enhancements: integral support for wide strings and metatables for integral
types too.  A lot of the C++ wrappers made sense too.

I didn't see mention of it on lua-users.org, or maybe it was in too obscure
a place to find.

Regards

-- 
---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LuaPlus

Martin Spernau
Hi Dylan...
I was looking at LuaPlus but gave up on the facts that it was
specifically Win32 only...
-Martin
Dylan Cuthbert wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>In the newsgroup archives I found mention of LuaPlus
>(http://wwhiz.com/LuaPlus), an extension to Lua for C++ with addin support
>for Visual Studio's debugger and a whole lot more.
>
>Anyone else using this?  it looked rather good, especially the Lua core
>enhancements: integral support for wide strings and metatables for integral
>types too.  A lot of the C++ wrappers made sense too.
>
>I didn't see mention of it on lua-users.org, or maybe it was in too obscure
>a place to find.
>
>Regards
>
>  
>



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LuaPlus

Dylan Cuthbert
Yes, I can see that being a problem, but a lot of the C++ wrapper stuff and
the extensions to the Lua core are cross-platform.

There is also "Sol" which LuaPlus (and LuaState) seem to take ideas from.
It also appears that most of Sol's "improvements" were inherited for Lua
version 5.

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com


"Martin Spernau" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
[hidden email]">news:3EFAF070.9000509@......
> Hi Dylan...
> I was looking at LuaPlus but gave up on the facts that it was
> specifically Win32 only...
> -Martin
> Dylan Cuthbert wrote:
>
> >Hi there,
> >
> >In the newsgroup archives I found mention of LuaPlus
> >(http://wwhiz.com/LuaPlus), an extension to Lua for C++ with addin
support
> >for Visual Studio's debugger and a whole lot more.
> >
> >Anyone else using this?  it looked rather good, especially the Lua core
> >enhancements: integral support for wide strings and metatables for
integral
> >types too.  A lot of the C++ wrappers made sense too.
> >
> >I didn't see mention of it on lua-users.org, or maybe it was in too
obscure
> >a place to find.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LuaPlus

John Belmonte-2
In reply to this post by Dylan Cuthbert
Dylan Cuthbert wrote:
> In the newsgroup archives I found mention of LuaPlus
> (http://wwhiz.com/LuaPlus), an extension to Lua for C++ with addin support
> for Visual Studio's debugger and a whole lot more.
> 
> Anyone else using this?  it looked rather good, especially the Lua core
> enhancements: integral support for wide strings and metatables for integral
> types too.  A lot of the C++ wrappers made sense too.
> 
> I didn't see mention of it on lua-users.org, or maybe it was in too obscure
> a place to find.

Hi Dylan,

As far as C++ wrappers, I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet, but have you looked
at luabind (http://luabind.sourceforge.net/)?

I think it's unfortunate that the various extentions out there these days (like extended
metatables) aren't maintained as stand-alone patches to the official distribution.  Such
patches were popular in the Lua 4 days (see http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaPowerPatches),
but the art of careful mix-and-match friendly patching seems to have been lost somewhere.

I added a LuaPlus link to http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaAddons.

-John



-- 
http:// if   l .o  /


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LuaPlus

Dylan Cuthbert
Ah, there you are Mr Belmonte,  I was beginning to think you'd done a
runner.. How are you dealing with ex-ex-pat syndrome now you're back in the
states?

I'll check out luabind, at first glance it seems better supported than
LuaPlus.

I hope I'm not causing too many waves of disapproval in the Lua crowd with
my sudden torrent of questions and poking about.  :-)

Regards

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com

"John Belmonte" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
[hidden email]">news:3EFB0D05.1080607@......
> Dylan Cuthbert wrote:
> > In the newsgroup archives I found mention of LuaPlus
> > (http://wwhiz.com/LuaPlus), an extension to Lua for C++ with addin
support
> > for Visual Studio's debugger and a whole lot more.
> >
> > Anyone else using this?  it looked rather good, especially the Lua core
> > enhancements: integral support for wide strings and metatables for
integral
> > types too.  A lot of the C++ wrappers made sense too.
> >
> > I didn't see mention of it on lua-users.org, or maybe it was in too
obscure
> > a place to find.
>
> Hi Dylan,
>
> As far as C++ wrappers, I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet, but
have you looked
> at luabind (http://luabind.sourceforge.net/)?
>
> I think it's unfortunate that the various extentions out there these days
(like extended
> metatables) aren't maintained as stand-alone patches to the official
distribution.  Such
> patches were popular in the Lua 4 days (see
http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaPowerPatches),
> but the art of careful mix-and-match friendly patching seems to have been
lost somewhere.
>
> I added a LuaPlus link to http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaAddons.
>
> -John
>
>
>
> -- 
> http:// if   l .o  /
>
>



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: LuaPlus

Nick Trout
In reply to this post by Dylan Cuthbert
> I'll check out luabind, at first glance it seems better supported than
> LuaPlus.

It's all hardcore template madness so you'll be at home there (so forget
that with CodeWarrior - although I think VC can just about keep up). I
have a feeling it's still kind of pre-alpha status though from listening
to noise on the mailing list. Personally I wonder about the efficiency
of it all if used extensively, just like you might worry about STL -
although I haven't tested this. Granted, your vector template stuff was
brilliant for optimizing vector math. We just do manual bindings as our
scripter API doesn't match the game class structure. There is very
little hierarchy or structure presented to the scripters to make
everyone's life easier.

> I hope I'm not causing too many waves of disapproval in the Lua crowd
with
> my sudden torrent of questions and poking about.  :-)

It's always interesting when someone has a new angle on things. It's an
interesting mix of academics, from whom I've learnt a lot about
languages, game writers who are obsessed with size and speed, and more
casual users who are just looking for good language solutions. I think
they're a pretty sociable bunch actually.

--nick



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: LuaPlus

Joshua Jensen
In reply to this post by Dylan Cuthbert
I'm not sure what font you're using, but shown in Outlook, it's atrocious.

> In the newsgroup archives I found mention of LuaPlus 
> (http://wwhiz.com/LuaPlus), an extension to Lua for C++ with 
> addin support for Visual Studio's debugger and a whole lot more.
> 
> Anyone else using this?  it looked rather good, especially 
> the Lua core
> enhancements: integral support for wide strings and 
> metatables for integral types too.

Microsoft shipped Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding
(http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2001-08/msg00068.html) using a LuaPlus
version written for Lua 4.1 Alpha.  Sometime in the next six months, I am
aware of 5 game titles that will be shipping using LuaPlus.  I am also aware
of several other games whose ship dates I don't know using LuaPlus.  In
addition, there are quite a few other companies who have been in contact
with me with questions/feature requests.

So in answer to your question, yes, there are quite a few people using it.

> A lot of the C++ wrappers made sense too.

Yep.  LuaObject and LuaTableIterator are my favorites.  LuaObject doesn't
require any form of stack manipulation, and that goes a long way toward
making the C++ interface to Lua much cleaner.

> I didn't see mention of it on lua-users.org, or maybe it was 
> in too obscure a place to find.

I don't think it was there, although a past C++ wrapper I wrote, LuaState,
was.  I decided I wasn't going to make the Lua mailing list or other
Lua-core-specific sites my personal advertising spot.  Normally, I take
LuaPlus conversations offline if they ever show up on list.  Since your
question was asked to the Lua community, I am responding to the Lua
community.

> Martin says:
> I was looking at LuaPlus but gave up on the facts that it was specifically
Win32 only...

It may look that way, but it isn't entirely true.  There is one individual I
am aware of using LuaPlus on Linux.  Sure, he doesn't have access to the
Remote Lua Debugger or the various VS.NET Lua add-ins, but that's only part
of the package.  Your statement just reminded me that this individual was
going to send me the patches to LuaPlus to get it compiling on Linux, and I
never followed up on it.

The biggest Linux issues we ran into were #pragma once not existing in
headers and wchar_t actually being 4 bytes instead of 2.

> There is also "Sol" which LuaPlus (and LuaState) seem to take ideas from.
> It also appears that most of Sol's "improvements" were inherited for Lua
> version 5.

Yep.  Edgar and I used to have conversations about Lua features.  I always
gave him credit for what was his.  My biggest issue with Sol was it was a
huge rework of the Lua core.  LuaPlus just patches the core when a feature
is needed.  Sol renamed EVERYTHING.

> John says:
> As far as C++ wrappers, I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet,
> but have you looked at luabind (http://luabind.sourceforge.net/)?

LuaBind and LuaPlus fill two different niches.  LuaPlus isn't interested in
duplicating features like cross language inheritance.  The LuaBind team did
an EXCELLENT job at implementing features like that.  My biggest issue with
LuaPlus is its reliance on Boost.  You can't really pick and choose a few
features of Boost.  You take it all or you take nothing.  I'm not in a
position to inherit the entire library (and its subsequent reliance on STL).

> John says:
> LuaBind: Personally I wonder about the efficiency of it all
> if used extensively...

Interestingly enough, under VC7 without all the special overloading stuff
LuaBind takes care of, the generated assembly code is basically as efficient
as if you had called all the lua_*() APIs by hand.  (It is in LuaPlus,
anyway.)

> I'll check out luabind, at first glance it seems better supported
> than LuaPlus.

Depends on what you mean by "better supported..."  :)

-Josh



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LuaPlus

Dylan Cuthbert
Sorry about the font, not sure why its crappy looking on your screen - I'm
posting in plain text but "charset="iso-2022-jp" is in the message header
because I used the japanese version of Outlook I suppose.

So you are the man behind LuaPlus, ok, what I meant by LuaBind being better
supported was by comparing the home pages, LuaBind is very slick for some
reason, and also a lot of the stuff at the bottom of the LuaPlus home page
says "obsolete" etc.  Also I couldn't find an e-mail address or your name
even so I didn't know where to go to ask questions.  :-)  But it sounds like
you're pretty active.  Do you have a mailing list or do you simply answer
questions on a person-to-person basis?

Any ideas regarding this vector thing I'm working on?  ;-)

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com

"Joshua Jensen" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
[hidden email]">news:20030627050426.330A513957@......
> I'm not sure what font you're using, but shown in Outlook, it's atrocious.
>
> > In the newsgroup archives I found mention of LuaPlus
> > (http://wwhiz.com/LuaPlus), an extension to Lua for C++ with
> > addin support for Visual Studio's debugger and a whole lot more.
> >
> > Anyone else using this?  it looked rather good, especially
> > the Lua core
> > enhancements: integral support for wide strings and
> > metatables for integral types too.
>
> Microsoft shipped Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding
> (http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2001-08/msg00068.html) using a LuaPlus
> version written for Lua 4.1 Alpha.  Sometime in the next six months, I am
> aware of 5 game titles that will be shipping using LuaPlus.  I am also
aware
> of several other games whose ship dates I don't know using LuaPlus.  In
> addition, there are quite a few other companies who have been in contact
> with me with questions/feature requests.
>
> So in answer to your question, yes, there are quite a few people using it.
>
> > A lot of the C++ wrappers made sense too.
>
> Yep.  LuaObject and LuaTableIterator are my favorites.  LuaObject doesn't
> require any form of stack manipulation, and that goes a long way toward
> making the C++ interface to Lua much cleaner.
>
> > I didn't see mention of it on lua-users.org, or maybe it was
> > in too obscure a place to find.
>
> I don't think it was there, although a past C++ wrapper I wrote, LuaState,
> was.  I decided I wasn't going to make the Lua mailing list or other
> Lua-core-specific sites my personal advertising spot.  Normally, I take
> LuaPlus conversations offline if they ever show up on list.  Since your
> question was asked to the Lua community, I am responding to the Lua
> community.
>
> > Martin says:
> > I was looking at LuaPlus but gave up on the facts that it was
specifically
> Win32 only...
>
> It may look that way, but it isn't entirely true.  There is one individual
I
> am aware of using LuaPlus on Linux.  Sure, he doesn't have access to the
> Remote Lua Debugger or the various VS.NET Lua add-ins, but that's only
part
> of the package.  Your statement just reminded me that this individual was
> going to send me the patches to LuaPlus to get it compiling on Linux, and
I
> never followed up on it.
>
> The biggest Linux issues we ran into were #pragma once not existing in
> headers and wchar_t actually being 4 bytes instead of 2.
>
> > There is also "Sol" which LuaPlus (and LuaState) seem to take ideas
from.
> > It also appears that most of Sol's "improvements" were inherited for Lua
> > version 5.
>
> Yep.  Edgar and I used to have conversations about Lua features.  I always
> gave him credit for what was his.  My biggest issue with Sol was it was a
> huge rework of the Lua core.  LuaPlus just patches the core when a feature
> is needed.  Sol renamed EVERYTHING.
>
> > John says:
> > As far as C++ wrappers, I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet,
> > but have you looked at luabind (http://luabind.sourceforge.net/)?
>
> LuaBind and LuaPlus fill two different niches.  LuaPlus isn't interested
in
> duplicating features like cross language inheritance.  The LuaBind team
did
> an EXCELLENT job at implementing features like that.  My biggest issue
with
> LuaPlus is its reliance on Boost.  You can't really pick and choose a few
> features of Boost.  You take it all or you take nothing.  I'm not in a
> position to inherit the entire library (and its subsequent reliance on
STL).
>
> > John says:
> > LuaBind: Personally I wonder about the efficiency of it all
> > if used extensively...
>
> Interestingly enough, under VC7 without all the special overloading stuff
> LuaBind takes care of, the generated assembly code is basically as
efficient
> as if you had called all the lua_*() APIs by hand.  (It is in LuaPlus,
> anyway.)
>
> > I'll check out luabind, at first glance it seems better supported
> > than LuaPlus.
>
> Depends on what you mean by "better supported..."  :)
>
> -Josh
>
>
>



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: LuaPlus

Daniel Wallin-2
In reply to this post by Dylan Cuthbert
>
> > I'll check out luabind, at first glance it seems better
> supported than
> > LuaPlus.
>
> It's all hardcore template madness so you'll be at home
> there (so forget
> that with CodeWarrior - although I think VC can just about
> keep up). I
> have a feeling it's still kind of pre-alpha status though
> from listening
> to noise on the mailing list. Personally I wonder about
> the efficiency
> of it all if used extensively, just like you might worry
> about STL -
> although I haven't tested this. Granted, your vector
> template stuff was
> brilliant for optimizing vector math. We just do manual
> bindings as our
> scripter API doesn't match the game class structure. There
> is very
> little hierarchy or structure presented to the scripters
> to make
> everyone's life easier.

Actually, luabind does work with CW8. The only thing that
doesn't work (that I'm aware of) is that CW can't tell the
difference between const and non-const memberfunctions. This
doesn't break support though, if you can stay away from
overloads that only differ on constness.

It is not in pre-alpha, it's in beta6. I would say it's
pretty stable.

As for performance, every feature has a price. In
particular, overloading introduces some additional cost when
resolving which overload to call. This overhead mostly
disapears in the noise with all the lua_XXX call's anyway.
As for the generated code, it is very efficient, using
templates and extensive inlining.

--
Daniel Wallin

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: LuaPlus

Daniel Wallin-2
In reply to this post by Dylan Cuthbert
> I'm not sure what font you're using, but shown in Outlook,
> it's atrocious.
>
> > In the newsgroup archives I found mention of LuaPlus
> > (http://wwhiz.com/LuaPlus), an extension to Lua for C++
> with
> > addin support for Visual Studio's debugger and a whole
> lot more.
> >
> > Anyone else using this?  it looked rather good,
> especially
> > the Lua core
> > enhancements: integral support for wide strings and
> > metatables for integral types too.
>
> Microsoft shipped Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding
> (http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2001-08/msg00068.html)
> using a LuaPlus
> version written for Lua 4.1 Alpha.  Sometime in the next
> six months, I am
> aware of 5 game titles that will be shipping using
> LuaPlus.  I am also aware
> of several other games whose ship dates I don't know using
> LuaPlus.  In
> addition, there are quite a few other companies who have
> been in contact
> with me with questions/feature requests.
>
> So in answer to your question, yes, there are quite a few
> people using it.
>
> > A lot of the C++ wrappers made sense too.
>
> Yep.  LuaObject and LuaTableIterator are my favorites.
> LuaObject doesn't
> require any form of stack manipulation, and that goes a
> long way toward
> making the C++ interface to Lua much cleaner.
>
> > I didn't see mention of it on lua-users.org, or maybe it
> was
> > in too obscure a place to find.
>
> I don't think it was there, although a past C++ wrapper I
> wrote, LuaState,
> was.  I decided I wasn't going to make the Lua mailing
> list or other
> Lua-core-specific sites my personal advertising spot.
> Normally, I take
> LuaPlus conversations offline if they ever show up on
> list.  Since your
> question was asked to the Lua community, I am responding
> to the Lua
> community.
>
> > Martin says:
> > I was looking at LuaPlus but gave up on the facts that
> it was specifically
> Win32 only...
>
> It may look that way, but it isn't entirely true.  There
> is one individual I
> am aware of using LuaPlus on Linux.  Sure, he doesn't have
> access to the
> Remote Lua Debugger or the various VS.NET Lua add-ins, but
> that's only part
> of the package.  Your statement just reminded me that this
> individual was
> going to send me the patches to LuaPlus to get it
> compiling on Linux, and I
> never followed up on it.
>
> The biggest Linux issues we ran into were #pragma once not
> existing in
> headers and wchar_t actually being 4 bytes instead of 2.
>
> > There is also "Sol" which LuaPlus (and LuaState) seem to
> take ideas from.
> > It also appears that most of Sol's "improvements" were
> inherited for Lua
> > version 5.
>
> Yep.  Edgar and I used to have conversations about Lua
> features.  I always
> gave him credit for what was his.  My biggest issue with
> Sol was it was a
> huge rework of the Lua core.  LuaPlus just patches the
> core when a feature
> is needed.  Sol renamed EVERYTHING.
>
> > John says:
> > As far as C++ wrappers, I haven't had the opportunity to
> use it yet,
> > but have you looked at luabind
> (http://luabind.sourceforge.net/)?
>
> LuaBind and LuaPlus fill two different niches.  LuaPlus
> isn't interested in
> duplicating features like cross language inheritance.  The
> LuaBind team did
> an EXCELLENT job at implementing features like that.  My
> biggest issue with
> LuaPlus is its reliance on Boost.  You can't really pick
> and choose a few
> features of Boost.  You take it all or you take nothing.
> I'm not in a
> position to inherit the entire library (and its subsequent
> reliance on STL).

This is a common and strange misconception. Boost is mostly
a headers-only library, only a few of the boost libraries
are compiled. luabind mostly relies on type_traits and mpl,
none of which are compiled. What's the issue with using
this?

--
Daniel Wallin

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LuaPlus

Enno Rehling-2
In reply to this post by Nick Trout
Nick Trout wrote:

I'll check out luabind, at first glance it seems better supported than
LuaPlus.


It's all hardcore template madness so you'll be at home there (so forget
that with CodeWarrior - although I think VC can just about keep up). I
have a feeling it's still kind of pre-alpha status though from listening
to noise on the mailing list.

It's not as much pre-alpha as you might think. The parts that are implemented work pretty much without a problem, it's just that some things aren't there yet. Bu tin any case, the best C++ wrappers for lua, and with active developers, too. We use it for our current prototype, and it's been a blessing.

The template stuff is definitely not for the faint of heart, and you're going to hate those compile times after a while. Luckily, both incredibuild and distcc are my friends.

Enno.
--
<xterm> The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should
     be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take
     the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LuaPlus

John Belmonte-2
In reply to this post by Dylan Cuthbert
Dylan Cuthbert wrote:
Ah, there you are Mr Belmonte,  I was beginning to think you'd done a
runner.. How are you dealing with ex-ex-pat syndrome now you're back in the
states?

Well I found that New York city is enough like Tokyo to keep me happy. I don't think I'll be finding a replacement for Kyoto though.

I hope I'm not causing too many waves of disapproval in the Lua crowd with
my sudden torrent of questions and poking about.  :-)

I used to be a top Lua poker-abouter and hell raiser, so there is nothing wrong with that. The targets were much more obvious back then (like why aren't globals stored in a Lua table?). These days I just sit and watch.

You are sure to help pave the way for more and better use of Lua in game software.


In other news, Joshua Jensen wrote:
John says:
LuaBind: Personally I wonder about the efficiency of it all
if used extensively...

That doesn't sound like something I'd say.  That one goes to Nick.


Regards,
-John



--
http:// if   l .o  /


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

OT: fonts, was Re: LuaPlus

Enno Rehling-2
In reply to this post by Dylan Cuthbert
Dylan Cuthbert wrote:

Sorry about the font, not sure why its crappy looking on your screen - I'm
posting in plain text but "charset="iso-2022-jp" is in the message header
because I used the japanese version of Outlook I suppose.

Yes, happened to me as well, the solution was to just tell my news reader that it shouldn't display Japanese characters with a 16 point font. In Mozilla (and I bet in lesser prodcuts, too) you can set the font size on a per-language basis.

Enno.
--
<xterm> The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should
     be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take
     the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?