IUP status

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IUP status

Ivan Kolev-2
I recently discovered the IUP GUI toolkit, and liked it a lot. Of
course, the most important part is the convenient Lua binding (wxLua
seems too complex - probably because wxWindows is a bit too complex).
But it seems IUP is not actively developed. So I'd like to ask, what's
its status? Is it still under development, will there be a Lua 5
binding, are the bugs in the Lua 4 binding going to be fixed, etc...
And last, is there a specific mailing list about IUP, which would be the
right place for these and further questions and bug reports?

Thanks,
Ivan





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Re: IUP status

Antonio Scuri

  IUP is active and alive.

We are working on version 2.0, scheduled to end of June/July. Version 1.9.1 release date was October 2002, not that far. We have a small team, so release dates are not that frequently.

Some of the Lua 4 binding problems are already solved. We already have an ongoing Lua 5 binding, but will be release together with version 2.0.

We only have a support mail at [hidden email], no discussion list. Please feel free to send us any further questions and bug reports.

Best,
Antonio Scuri

At 05:10 22/5/2003, you wrote:
I recently discovered the IUP GUI toolkit, and liked it a lot. Of
course, the most important part is the convenient Lua binding (wxLua
seems too complex - probably because wxWindows is a bit too complex).
But it seems IUP is not actively developed. So I'd like to ask, what's
its status? Is it still under development, will there be a Lua 5
binding, are the bugs in the Lua 4 binding going to be fixed, etc...
And last, is there a specific mailing list about IUP, which would be the
right place for these and further questions and bug reports?

Thanks,
Ivan





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Re: IUP status

Ivan Kolev-2
  IUP is active and alive.

That's great news.

We are working on version 2.0, scheduled to end of June/July. Version 1.9.1 release date was October 2002, not that far. We have a small team, so release dates are not that frequently.

That's normal, no problem. I got the impression that it's not active for
a few reasons - no recent website updates (which is natural for a small
team focusing on the work, not the publicity), no mailing list as for
Lua (the list makes the impression that a lot of people are using the
product, and that the developers are working on it), and the fact that
the Lua4 binding was still 'beta' when Lua 5 was released.
Anyway, I'm glad that the next release is coming so soon.

Some of the Lua 4 binding problems are already solved. We already have an ongoing Lua 5 binding, but will be release together with version 2.0.

Great.

We only have a support mail at [hidden email], no discussion list. Please feel free to send us any further questions and bug reports.

OK, if you have fixed the bugs in the Lua4 binding, I'll send you just
comments and suggestions for the next build.

Lua + IUP is a very powerful combination. In a very short time I built a
small visual environment for Lua, with a history window (using the list
control), watch window (using a tree control to display tables more
conveniently), and an edit window (using a matrix control to easily edit
table values). Working with Lua is much more pleasant this way, rather
than a simple command line. (Though I remember the good old days of the
command line with affection, one just can't deny the fact that some
things are done much faster with a point-and-click with the mouse :)
Another very important thing in IUP (besides the native look and the Lua
binding) is the presence of Tree and Grid (Matrix) controls. These are
very important controls for every non-basic interface, and especially
useful for developers, or for IDE's and world/level editors of any kind.
And it's a pity that not many GUI toolkits have these controls (FLTK for
example doesn't).

Now I'm working on a generic world/object editor, with plugins for
different purposes. Naturally, the first plugin is a IUP interface
editor :) If there's interest (and you are not already working on a
visual interface editor for IUP), I can publish it when it's ready.

This got a bit long, but I'm really inspired by IUP/Lua, and wanted to
share my enthusiasm... Thanks to all IUP and Lua developers.

Ivan Kolev
Garga Games
www.gargagames.com





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Re: IUP status

Mark Stroetzel Glasberg
In reply to this post by Ivan Kolev-2
>binding, are the bugs in the Lua 4 binding going to be fixed, etc...

If there are bugs, they will be fixed... So far I have information of
only one and it is already fixed for next version:

- [4/5] When creating an IupZbox, iuplua is not automatically giving
 names to to its children (it is done in iuplua3)

Please inform us if you find another.

Regards,
Mark

 -- 
 |\/|ark Stroetzel Glasberg
 [hidden email]

 System Analyst
 Tecgraf/PUC-Rio
 URL:  http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/~mark
 Tel:  55 21 2512-5984 ext. 116
 Fax:  55 21 2259-2232


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Re: IUP status

Ivan Kolev-2
If there are bugs, they will be fixed... So far I have information of
only one and it is already fixed for next version:

- [4/5] When creating an IupZbox, iuplua is not automatically giving
 names to to its children (it is done in iuplua3)

Please inform us if you find another.

Mark,

Since I definitely know of more problems with IupLua4, I decided to
check if I'm using the latest version of IupLua4. At first I thought
that I wasn't. When I downloaded the "Iup 1.9.1 with Lua 3 and 4"
package, the dates of the IupLua4 files were May 20, which is just 3
days ago (btw, a simple News section on your website would help users
learn when new versions are released).
I installed it, but a windiff on the old and new files showed that there
are no changes compared to the previous beta version that I had. I
suppose the beta version has been simply included with the main
distribution, without changes.

The major problem with the Lua4 binding that I find is that the binding
is out of sync with IUP. It seems that an older version of the Lua3
binding (or IUP itself) has been used to create the Lua4 binding. The
examples I can give are related to the Tree control, which I'm using the
most, but there may be other:
- In IUP the 'afterselection' and 'beforeselection' callbacks have been
replaced with a single 'selection' callback. In the Lua3 binding this is
reflected, while the Lua4 binding still uses before... and after... As a
result, one cannot define any tree selection callback.
- The Lua3 binding has the very needed IupTree(Get/Set)TableId functions
(which are also described in the history of changes in the docs), while
Lua4 doesn't.

There's also a bug in the IUP windows driver - if there's a separator
item in a menu and the mouse passes over it, IUP crashes (there should
be an assert failure, but it seems the assert calls something else which
crashes). It can be easily fixed by changing line 1249 in winproc.c to
n = si ? iupwingetmenuIhandle((int) si) : 0;

And since I've started to list bugs, let me add a few wishes:

- The mouse wheel does not scroll the Tree window
- An option to have resizable frames in the HBox and VBox controls
- Global keyboard shortcuts. Currently the menu shortcuts work only
while the menu has the focus. There should probably be a way to add
global accelerators, which can call different interface elements. In the
beginning, calling menu items regardless of the current focus would be
enough.

These are all bugs and wishes I can remember at the moment, but I'll
start keeping track of them from now on.

Best Regards,
Ivan





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Re: IUP status

Antonio Scuri

Since I definitely know of more problems with IupLua4, I decided to
check if I'm using the latest version of IupLua4. At first I thought
that I wasn't. When I downloaded the "Iup 1.9.1 with Lua 3 and 4"
package, the dates of the IupLua4 files were May 20, which is just 3
days ago (btw, a simple News section on your website would help users
learn when new versions are released).
I installed it, but a windiff on the old and new files showed that there
are no changes compared to the previous beta version that I had. I
suppose the beta version has been simply included with the main
distribution, without changes.

Yes. We just rebuild the distribution packaged a few days ago because of new binaries.

Thank you for all the reports. We are going to solve the iuplua out of sync stuff ASAP.

   The other bugs/wishes we hope to solve before next version.

Best,
scuri


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Re: IUP status

Mark Stroetzel Glasberg
In reply to this post by Ivan Kolev-2
Ivan wrote:
> check if I'm using the latest version of IupLua4. At first I thought
> that I wasn't. When I downloaded the "Iup 1.9.1 with Lua 3 and 4"
> package, the dates of the IupLua4 files were May 20, which is just 3
> I installed it, but a windiff on the old and new files showed that there
> are no changes compared to the previous beta version that I had. I
> suppose the beta version has been simply included with the main
> distribution, without changes.

Hello,

First, I appologize if the answer to those questions goes a little off
the list topic, but since it has to do with the Lua binding here it
goes...

Although the files you downloaded are from May 20, they are from the 
previous version. We recompiled it internally because of a system 
upgrade. That explains also why the diff showed nothing.

> days ago (btw, a simple News section on your website would help users
> learn when new versions are released).

We have it at:

http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/index.html?url=changes.html

and we are working on a new link with information about bugs/new
features
being worked on (today we only have it internally.)

> The major problem with the Lua4 binding that I find is that the binding
> is out of sync with IUP. It seems that an older version of the Lua3
> binding (or IUP itself) has been used to create the Lua4 binding. The
> examples I can give are related to the Tree control, which I'm using the
> most, but there may be other:

It is only partially true, and we are working on a way to keep it more
up
to date. You will find that most problems are with callback parameters,
but in the other hand, they are pretty easy to be solved.

> - In IUP the 'afterselection' and 'beforeselection' callbacks have been
> replaced with a single 'selection' callback. In the Lua3 binding this is
> reflected, while the Lua4 binding still uses before... and after... As a
> result, one cannot define any tree selection callback.

You are right, it has been fixed for next version.

> - The Lua3 binding has the very needed IupTree(Get/Set)TableId functions
> (which are also described in the history of changes in the docs), while
> Lua4 doesn't.

I'll look into it.

> There's also a bug in the IUP windows driver - if there's a separator
> item in a menu and the mouse passes over it, IUP crashes (there should
> be an assert failure, but it seems the assert calls something else which
> crashes). It can be easily fixed by changing line 1249 in winproc.c to
> n = si ? iupwingetmenuIhandle((int) si) : 0;

It is fixed for IUP 2.0.
 
> - The mouse wheel does not scroll the Tree window

Good idea.

> - An option to have resizable frames in the HBox and VBox controls

This is been worked on, although it will take a little longer to be
implemented.

> - Global keyboard shortcuts. Currently the menu shortcuts work only
> while the menu has the focus. There should probably be a way to add
> global accelerators, which can call different interface elements. In the
> beginning, calling menu items regardless of the current focus would be
> enough.

Have you tried using the IUP_K_ANY callback?

I will send you a stable version of IUP 2.0 as soon as I have it.

Regards,
Mark


-- 
|\/|ark Stroetzel Glasberg
[hidden email]

System Analyst
Tecgraf/PUC-Rio
URL:  http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/~mark
Tel:  55 21 2512-5984 ext. 116
Fax:  55 21 2259-2232

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Re: IUP status

Ivan Kolev-2
days ago (btw, a simple News section on your website would help users
learn when new versions are released).
We have it at:
http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/index.html?url=changes.html

I know, but when I saw the recent file dates I got the impression that
you sometimes release updates without reflecting the history page.
Obviously I was wrong.

It is only partially true, and we are working on a way to keep it more
up
to date. You will find that most problems are with callback parameters,
but in the other hand, they are pretty easy to be solved.

OK. I'll notify you if I find other discrepancies.

- Global keyboard shortcuts. Currently the menu shortcuts work only
Have you tried using the IUP_K_ANY callback?

I should read docs more carefully. I do use the callback, but never
noticed that returning IUP_CONTINUE would propagate the callback to the
containing element. Meaning that I should assign the global callback to
the dialog. I'll try it tomorrow, it'll probably work.

I will send you a stable version of IUP 2.0 as soon as I have it.

That would be great, thanks a lot.
If you guys are working hard on 2.0, you should probably not waste time
on fixing bugs in 1.9.1 and releasing another 1.9.x build. Better leave
everthing for 2.0 (if it's indeed coming in less than 2 months). There
are no show-stopping problems, at least from my point of view. Nothing I
cannot temporarily work around.

I just read Antonio's comments about the "many GUI toolkits, no best
option". I totally agree, and I want to encourage you that IUP indeed
needs to be kept alive, as Antonio pointed.
And to me it seems to be the most natural choice for LuaCheia, as
well... (another project I'm looking forward to).

Best Regards,
Ivan




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Re: IUP status

Antonio Scuri
In reply to this post by Ivan Kolev-2
At 14:12 22/5/2003, you wrote:
  IUP is active and alive.
That's great news.

  It seems that your message was bouncing in the mail server for a while...

If there's interest (and you are not already working on a
visual interface editor for IUP), I can publish it when it's ready.

Great news. We once build a Visual LED editor, but after a while many users think that it was easier to write the LED code instead of using the editor, so it was discontinued. IUPLUA has the same kind of use, so we build a simple interface to prototype dialogs writing code and testing, it is the iuplua executable.

We also developed a Visual Lua application, but we did not have the time to go on with it. I can send you the code so it can make things easier for you. (Note: it uses Lua 3.2)

Since IUP uses abstract layout a visual interface editor is something not immediate. Once you got yours running I will be glad to take a look.

Best,
Antonio Scuri

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Re: IUP status

Ivan Kolev-2
  It seems that your message was bouncing in the mail server for a while...

Indeed, very strange. I see this happen for the 1st time...

Great news. We once build a Visual LED editor, but after a while many users think that it was easier to write the LED code instead of using the editor, so it was discontinued. IUPLUA has the same kind of use, so we build a simple interface to prototype dialogs writing code and testing, it is the iuplua executable.

Though it is indeed very easy to describe dialogs in Lua, I prefer the
graphic interface - it's faster, it's harder to make an error, and it
also helps to avoid the manual (most control properties are
self-explanatory).

We also developed a Visual Lua application, but we did not have the time to go on with it. I can send you the code so it can make things easier for you. (Note: it uses Lua 3.2)

That's interesting, especially if it is written in Lua.

Since IUP uses abstract layout a visual interface editor is something not immediate. Once you got yours running I will be glad to take a look.

I'll post it after I move it to IUP 2.0.

Best Regards,
Ivan