I have a problem...

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I have a problem...

Kagehi
I just got a Palm Zire 31 and recently got a 1GB card for it.

The problem is, when I try to install some of the "sample"
applications made with Plua on the card, then run them (Life.prc and
Aquario specifically), when I try to run them I get:

Fatal Error
MemoryMgr.c Line:3651
Free Handle

By copying the life one, by hand, into the Plua on the device itself I
can run it, but not a pre-compiled version. Anyone know why?

The other question is, how do you get the bloody Palm QuickInstall, or
anything else, to load .lua files onto the card? I haven't tried .bas
files yet, but I suspect that this is going to happen with them too,
it certainly did with PDFs, requiring that I use the Adobe app to
transfer them (I wondered why the heck I need it installed on the
computer too...)

Definitely interested in trying to learn Lua using this, but so far
things haven't worked so well. lol





 
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Re: I have a problem...

Bugzilla from ibelcomputing@yahoo.com.mx
I have a similar problem. When i try to run any .lua file on the SD
card, i get a "Expression expected, last string read '0x' on line 1".

--- In [hidden email], "Patrick Elliott" <shadowfyr55@...>
wrote:
>
> I just got a Palm Zire 31 and recently got a 1GB card for it.
>
> The problem is, when I try to install some of the "sample"
> applications made with Plua on the card, then run them (Life.prc
and
> Aquario specifically), when I try to run them I get:
>
> Fatal Error
> MemoryMgr.c Line:3651
> Free Handle
>
> By copying the life one, by hand, into the Plua on the device
itself I
> can run it, but not a pre-compiled version. Anyone know why?
>
> The other question is, how do you get the bloody Palm
QuickInstall, or
> anything else, to load .lua files onto the card? I haven't
tried .bas
> files yet, but I suspect that this is going to happen with them
too,
> it certainly did with PDFs, requiring that I use the Adobe app to
> transfer them (I wondered why the heck I need it installed on the
> computer too...)
>
> Definitely interested in trying to learn Lua using this, but so far
> things haven't worked so well. lol
>







 
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RE: Re: I have a problem...

Kagehi
Between Motorola and their insane phones and now Palm... I am glad the
people that built cell phones, some MP3 players, like the Rio Chiba and
apparently Palm, don't build boats. I can imagine the key issue in the
design departments conversation, "Well, its supposed to be a river boat, so
we don't need to worry about corrosion.", and the end users reaction, "Why
the @$$@# is my boat sinking every time five minutes after I put it in salt
water?"

Oh, and why the heck isn't it possible to partition an SD card, like a HD,
so you can use >1GB SD cards in some of these things, especially the ones
already using FAT to read and write? Other than the obvious, that they just
didn't figure anyone would *actually* make a 2GB+ SD card in the lifetime of
the product...

Anyway, I really hope there is a solution for this. At the moment, I can't
thing of anything I can even put on the SD card, given the fact that
everything I want to put on there is either a PDF, which it appears will end
up in the main memory... or can't be transfered using the Palm tools
because, "No application exist that recognizes those types of files!", or
what ever the error was when I tried it. :p

>From: "ibelcomputing" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: [plua] Re: I have a problem...
>Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:09:42 -0000
>
>I have a similar problem. When i try to run any .lua file on the SD
>card, i get a "Expression expected, last string read '0x' on line 1".
>
>--- In [hidden email], "Patrick Elliott" <shadowfyr55@...>
>wrote:
> >
> > I just got a Palm Zire 31 and recently got a 1GB card for it.
> >
> > The problem is, when I try to install some of the "sample"
> > applications made with Plua on the card, then run them (Life.prc
>and
> > Aquario specifically), when I try to run them I get:
> >
> > Fatal Error
> > MemoryMgr.c Line:3651
> > Free Handle
> >




 
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Re: I have a problem...

migueletto
In reply to this post by Kagehi
Hi,

> I just got a Palm Zire 31 and recently got a 1GB card for it.
>
> The problem is, when I try to install some of the "sample"
> applications made with Plua on the card, then run them (Life.prc and
> Aquario specifically), when I try to run them I get:

I think you have to put at least the Plua runtime on the main memory.
I have not tested this, though. Anyway, there should be no fatal
errors. Can you provide more details, like which PRC's are stored where ?

> By copying the life one, by hand, into the Plua on the device itself I
> can run it, but not a pre-compiled version. Anyone know why?

I did not understand what you said. What you mean by copying bt hand ?

> The other question is, how do you get the bloody Palm QuickInstall, or
> anything else, to load .lua files onto the card? I haven't tried .bas
> files yet, but I suspect that this is going to happen with them too,
> it certainly did with PDFs, requiring that I use the Adobe app to
> transfer them (I wondered why the heck I need it installed on the
> computer too...)

One of biggest flaws with PalmOS/Hotsync/Quickinstall is the way they
handle storage cards. Every piece of data in PalmOS must be "owned" by
one and only one application. This is fine for files stored in main
memory, but works poorly for storage cards.

Regards,
Marcio.






 
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Re: I have a problem...

migueletto
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from ibelcomputing@yahoo.com.mx
Hi,

> I have a similar problem. When i try to run any .lua file on the SD
> card, i get a "Expression expected, last string read '0x' on line 1".

What are the contents of your .lua file ?
On what directory are you storing them ?
What are the PalmOS and Plua versions ?

Regards,
Marcio.






 
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RE: Re: I have a problem...

Kagehi
In reply to this post by migueletto
>From: "migueletto" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: [plua] Re: I have a problem...
>Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:31:33 -0000
>
>Hi,
>
> > I just got a Palm Zire 31 and recently got a 1GB card for it.
> >
> > The problem is, when I try to install some of the "sample"
> > applications made with Plua on the card, then run them (Life.prc and
> > Aquario specifically), when I try to run them I get:
>
>I think you have to put at least the Plua runtime on the main memory.
>I have not tested this, though. Anyway, there should be no fatal
>errors. Can you provide more details, like which PRC's are stored where ?
>
Hmm. Plua2.prc, Plua2RT.prc, PluaED.prc and MathLib.prc are all in the Main
memory. I was trying to run Aquario and Life from the memory card. I since
deleted them from the card and only have SmallBASIC on there, which has no
obvious problems running from there.

BTW, this is OS V.5.2.8, not, as far as I can tell, upgradable.

> > By copying the life one, by hand, into the Plua on the device itself I
> > can run it, but not a pre-compiled version. Anyone know why?
>
>I did not understand what you said. What you mean by copying bt hand ?
>
I mean that bringing up the original .lua file in notepad on the PC, then
entering that into Plua directly, line by line, I could get it to run, but
not as a compiled PRC. I haven't actually tried running them in main memory,
since that would defeat the entire purpose of using a memory card to store
the stuff I don't a) want on the main device or b) may take up too much
space. Frankly, this is already a pain, since one reason I got the thing was
due to the frustration of trying to read documentation for some programs,
where it was impossible or inconvenient to constant switch between the
help/pdf cotaining the docs and the application I was trying to work with.
Using up space on the main unit for "either" those documents or applications
I might design, are both counter productive.

> > The other question is, how do you get the bloody Palm QuickInstall, or
> > anything else, to load .lua files onto the card? I haven't tried .bas
> > files yet, but I suspect that this is going to happen with them too,
> > it certainly did with PDFs, requiring that I use the Adobe app to
> > transfer them (I wondered why the heck I need it installed on the
> > computer too...)
>
>One of biggest flaws with PalmOS/Hotsync/Quickinstall is the way they
>handle storage cards. Every piece of data in PalmOS must be "owned" by
>one and only one application. This is fine for files stored in main
>memory, but works poorly for storage cards.
>
Yeah. No kidding... Its right up there with making two identical parts for
different cars, with the only reason you can't use both in either car being
"because they put the mounting holes in the wrong bloody places"... If you
can't use it, what good is being able to buy it? lol I've always considered
these things over priced for what they actually do, now it turns out they
may not even "do" most of the stuff I expected them to...




 
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Re: I have a problem...

migueletto
Hi,

> >I think you have to put at least the Plua runtime on the main memory.
> >I have not tested this, though. Anyway, there should be no fatal
> >errors. Can you provide more details, like which PRC's are stored
where ?
> >
> Hmm. Plua2.prc, Plua2RT.prc, PluaED.prc and MathLib.prc are all in
the Main
> memory. I was trying to run Aquario and Life from the memory card. I
since
> deleted them from the card and only have SmallBASIC on there, which
has no
> obvious problems running from there.

After some more analysis, my conclusion is that compiled Plua
applications can not run from memory cards. Both the app and the
runtime must reside on the main memory. The details are a little
technical and long, but here they are:

If you store a PRC on the /PALM/Launcher directory on a memory card,
PalmOS shows it in the application launcher and allows you to run it,
giving the illusion that it is run directly off the card. But that is
only an illusion. What really happens is that PalmOS copies the PRC to
the main memory (like it was installed via Hotsync), runs it, and when
the app is finished PalmOS deletes it from the main memory.

This delete step is what prevents compiled Plua apps from working.
When a Plua app runs, it calls the Plua runtime and asks it to run the
Lua bytecode. This call is actually a complete app switch, in which
the app is finished and the runtime is started. But when the app is
finished it is deleted by PalmOS, so the runtime can not find it.

The runtime checks if the app exists before accessing it, so at least
a "Not found" error could be raised instead of the fatal exception,
but for some obscure reason the PalmOS API used to check if a PRC
exists crashes in this case.

Regards,
Marcio.





 
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RE: Re: I have a problem...

Kagehi
>From: "migueletto" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: [plua] Re: I have a problem...
>Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 11:55:32 -0000
>
>Hi,
>
> > >I think you have to put at least the Plua runtime on the main memory.
> > >I have not tested this, though. Anyway, there should be no fatal
> > >errors. Can you provide more details, like which PRC's are stored
>where ?
> > >
> > Hmm. Plua2.prc, Plua2RT.prc, PluaED.prc and MathLib.prc are all in
>the Main
> > memory. I was trying to run Aquario and Life from the memory card. I
>since
> > deleted them from the card and only have SmallBASIC on there, which
>has no
> > obvious problems running from there.
>
>After some more analysis, my conclusion is that compiled Plua
>applications can not run from memory cards. Both the app and the
>runtime must reside on the main memory. The details are a little
>technical and long, but here they are:
>
>If you store a PRC on the /PALM/Launcher directory on a memory card,
>PalmOS shows it in the application launcher and allows you to run it,
>giving the illusion that it is run directly off the card. But that is
>only an illusion. What really happens is that PalmOS copies the PRC to
>the main memory (like it was installed via Hotsync), runs it, and when
>the app is finished PalmOS deletes it from the main memory.
>
>...

Great... Had problems like this with a telnet client, which also now uses
Lua as its default script system. The answer in that case was, "Don't delete
the trigger calling the script being executed, since this will crash the
client when the script attempts to exit." Unfortunately, the solution isn't
quite so obvious this time... Sigh.. Nice to know what the heck is going on
though.

So.. To do this, Plua may need a bit of a redesign, allowing it to use the
original .lua files, instead of the .prc? Since at the moment there is no
way to even upload those to the memory card, never mind save them there. Of
course, someone coming up with a way to rip out the bloody file system and
replace it with one that works would be even better, but somehow I don't see
that happening. lol But, even something as simple as an installer utility
that let you tell it, "If you can't find an application that support this,
let me *tell you*, which one it should be assigned to, would help a lot. Its
quite a pain in the ass that the Quick Installer that comes with the PC
software won't let you do that.




 
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Re: Re: I have a problem...

Stefan Vorkoetter
Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Since at the moment there is no
> way to even upload those to the memory card, never mind save them there.

When I want to put non-Palm files on my Palm's memory card, I just put the card in the card reader/writer built into my monitor (or a standalone one before I had this monitor), and copy the files into the appropriate locations on the card.

Stefan


 
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Re: Re: I have a problem...

Kagehi
>From: Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [plua] Re: I have a problem...
>Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:43:48 -0400
>
>Patrick Elliott wrote:
> > Since at the moment there is no
> > way to even upload those to the memory card, never mind save them there.
>
>When I want to put non-Palm files on my Palm's memory card, I just put the
>card in the card reader/writer built into my monitor (or a standalone one
>before I had this monitor), and copy the files into the appropriate
>locations on the card.
>
Hmm.. Ok, how about, "no way for *me*", to do so? Well, I suppose I could
plug it into the MP3 player I have and hope it worked...

Seriously though, this is a seriously ludicrous problem, for something that
is supposed to be reasonably easy to use. :p There does seem to be a page I
found some place, though I didn't bookbark it, that discusses how to make
your own uploader and implied that you need to "register" file types with
the Palm's own internal manager somehow, if you don't want to have to do
that. As with most things, it only told me what I already knew. That if I
had the skill needed to practically code a embedded OS, I might be able to
code something to get around the current ones glitches. lol




 
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Re: Re: I have a problem...

Stefan Vorkoetter
Patrick Elliott wrote:
>> From: Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]>
>> When I want to put non-Palm files on my Palm's memory card, I just put the
>> card in the card reader/writer built into my monitor (or a standalone one
>> before I had this monitor), and copy the files into the appropriate
>> locations on the card.
>>
> Hmm.. Ok, how about, "no way for *me*", to do so? Well, I suppose I could
> plug it into the MP3 player I have and hope it worked...

I think there's a Palm app out there that lets you use your Palm _as_ a card reader/writer via Bluetooth or the HotSync cable.

For instance:

http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.showsoftware&prodID=62947
http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.showsoftware&prodID=112451

Stefan


 
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Re: Re: I have a problem...

Kagehi
>From: Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [plua] Re: I have a problem...
>Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 16:51:29 -0400
>
>Patrick Elliott wrote:
> >> From: Stefan Vorkoetter <[hidden email]>
> >> When I want to put non-Palm files on my Palm's memory card, I just put
>the
> >> card in the card reader/writer built into my monitor (or a standalone
>one
> >> before I had this monitor), and copy the files into the appropriate
> >> locations on the card.
> >>
> > Hmm.. Ok, how about, "no way for *me*", to do so? Well, I suppose I
>could
> > plug it into the MP3 player I have and hope it worked...
>
>I think there's a Palm app out there that lets you use your Palm _as_ a
>card reader/writer via Bluetooth or the HotSync cable.
>
>For instance:
>
>http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.showsoftware&prodID=62947
>http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.showsoftware&prodID=112451
>

Hmm. They seem to have changed the layout of their links... I just love when
people do that so your bookmarks stop working...

Found them anyway. Ugh! Proprietary.. Still, at least its fairly
inexpensive. Thanks. Now I just need to figure out how the heck to use it.
Note: There is still a major problem with Plua, even with this, while the
editor can "see" files on the card, the option to "create" a new one doesn't
seem to have the option of placing it on the card in the first place. And
since the OS doesn't recognize .lua as a valid file type, you can't "move"
one once it exists, just delete/run it... Definitely some serious issues
with the implimentation, not just with the bloody OS itself. :( One any
other OS, these would be considered "minor", in this case... Still, most of
it is the fault of the company's screwy system.




 
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Re: Re: I have a problem...

Stefan Vorkoetter
Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Definitely some serious issues
> with the implimentation, not just with the bloody OS itself. :( One any
> other OS, these would be considered "minor", in this case... Still, most of
> it is the fault of the company's screwy system.

I think it's safe to say that Palm OS has been pushed way beyond what it
was ever intended for. Given that, I'd say it works quite well.

--
Stefan Vorkoetter
Capable Computing, Inc.


 
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Re: I have a problem...

migueletto
In reply to this post by Kagehi
Hi,

> Note: There is still a major problem with Plua, even with this,
while the
> editor can "see" files on the card, the option to "create" a new one
doesn't
> seem to have the option of placing it on the card in the first
place. And
> since the OS doesn't recognize .lua as a valid file type, you can't
"move"
> one once it exists, just delete/run it... Definitely some serious
issues
> with the implimentation, not just with the bloody OS itself.

Currently Plua does not support launching an editor for VFS files. So
it does not make sense for it to create a file on a VFS card, since it
can not edit it.

If you are required to manually leave Plua and then run a VFS editor
to edit a file, you can also use the same editor to create a .lua
file. When you return to Plua you can run and compile it.

Regards,
Marcio.






 
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RE: Re: I have a problem...

Kagehi
>From: "migueletto" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: [plua] Re: I have a problem...
>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:20:07 -0000
>
>Hi,
>
>Currently Plua does not support launching an editor for VFS files. So
>it does not make sense for it to create a file on a VFS card, since it
>can not edit it.
>
Very complicated way of saying what I did myself. lol I know it doesn't
currently support it, that is the flaw. ;) But yeah, assuming you have
an editor that will work with the card, its not a problem. This is
starting to feel like the old days of Windows 3.11 though, "It doesn't
work? Well, just install more stuff until it does!"




 
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Important for usage of card for Plua programs..

Berkant Atay
--- In [hidden email], "Patrick Elliott" <shadowfyr55@...>
wrote:

>
> >From: "migueletto" <mmand@...>
> >Reply-To: [hidden email]
> >To: [hidden email]
> >Subject: [plua] Re: I have a problem...
> >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:20:07 -0000
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >Currently Plua does not support launching an editor for VFS files.
So
> >it does not make sense for it to create a file on a VFS card,
since it
> >can not edit it.
> >
> Very complicated way of saying what I did myself. lol I know it
doesn't
> currently support it, that is the flaw. ;) But yeah, assuming you
have
> an editor that will work with the card, its not a problem. This is
> starting to feel like the old days of Windows 3.11 though, "It
doesn't
> work? Well, just install more stuff until it does!"
>

Hi,
I have a freeware called CardTXT. Using this beautiful piece of
program I can create and edit any text or doc file on the card. I can
write Plua code, edit, and save it on the SD card. I can open already
written files by SrcEdit. Sometimes when I copy a program file
created in the internal memory to the card using FileZ, some nonsense
header text appears in the beginning of the file. I then open the
file with CardTXT and delete the nonsense characters and change the
pdb or doc extension to .lua (using FileZ), then the program on the
card both runs and can be compiled smoothly using Plua2.