ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

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ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

Fernando Paredes García
Dear all,

A new channel has been created on the FreeNode IRC Server, #lua-support.

#lua-support is dedicated to handling support based questions for novice and pro alike.

*No off-topic conversations will be tolerated as this is a constructive environment to help further your lua scripting abilities.*

Please feel free to join #lua-support!

--
Fernando Paredes García

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=develcuy

** Before printing  this message, please consider your commitment with the environment
** Antes de imprimir este mensaje  piensa en tu compromiso con el medio ambiente


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Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

Daurnimator
On 27 July 2014 16:32, Fernando Paredes García <[hidden email]> wrote:
A new channel has been created on the FreeNode IRC Server, #lua-support.

#lua-support is dedicated to handling support based questions for novice and pro alike.

*No off-topic conversations will be tolerated as this is a constructive environment to help further your lua scripting abilities.*

What is wrong with the well populated #lua ?
A fork from seems pointless...
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Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

Steven Degutis
I've gotten tons of extremely useful help from #lua, although sometimes it took a bit of patience in waiting for my question to be heard amidst the perpetual offtopic conversation.


On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Daurnimator <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 27 July 2014 16:32, Fernando Paredes García <[hidden email]> wrote:
A new channel has been created on the FreeNode IRC Server, #lua-support.

#lua-support is dedicated to handling support based questions for novice and pro alike.

*No off-topic conversations will be tolerated as this is a constructive environment to help further your lua scripting abilities.*

What is wrong with the well populated #lua ?
A fork from seems pointless...

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Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

Coroutines
In reply to this post by Daurnimator
On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Daurnimator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is wrong with the well populated #lua ?
> A fork from seems pointless...

Some people feel that #lua contains too much general, off-topic
discussion.  I try to only bring up non-lua-related stuff when nothing
is happening in #lua -- regulars know regulars and we talk, but people
still get annoyed.  I welcome this, now people can't complain about
conversation graffiti in #lua :p

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Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

mniip
In reply to this post by Daurnimator
On 07/28/2014 04:36 AM, Daurnimator wrote:
On 27 July 2014 16:32, Fernando Paredes García <[hidden email]> wrote:
A new channel has been created on the FreeNode IRC Server, #lua-support.

#lua-support is dedicated to handling support based questions for novice and pro alike.

*No off-topic conversations will be tolerated as this is a constructive environment to help further your lua scripting abilities.*

What is wrong with the well populated #lua ?
A fork from seems pointless...
I guess off-topic is exactly what's wrong. Although I don't really see any problem here. We're just filling the vacuum. It doesn't interfere with providing support to people.
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Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

Rob Kendrick-2
On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:35:36AM +0400, mniip wrote:

> I guess off-topic is exactly what's wrong. Although I don't really see
> any problem here. We're just filling the vacuum. It doesn't interfere
> with providing support to people.

Quite.  The vacuum being filled makes the channel more active, which
leads to people looking at it more often, which leads to prompter
answers for people.

B.

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Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

John Belmonte
In reply to this post by Fernando Paredes García
To the parties attempting to settle a dispute by continuously overwriting each other's edits on the IrcChannel wiki page:  please stop.

My suggestion is to choose an arbitrator, present your case (e.g. on the mailing list), and accept the outcome with some dignity.

--John



On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Fernando Paredes García <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear all,

A new channel has been created on the FreeNode IRC Server, #lua-support.

#lua-support is dedicated to handling support based questions for novice and pro alike.

*No off-topic conversations will be tolerated as this is a constructive environment to help further your lua scripting abilities.*

Please feel free to join #lua-support!

--
Fernando Paredes García

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=develcuy

** Before printing  this message, please consider your commitment with the environment
** Antes de imprimir este mensaje  piensa en tu compromiso con el medio ambiente



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Call for action: Rescue #lua (was Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support)

Fernando Paredes García
In reply to this post by Fernando Paredes García
Dear Lua community,

Let me elaborate about this.

## Some background
I'm connected to the #lua channel for the last 5 years, actually got a lot of excellent support along my way learning Lua. It used to be an awesome IRC channel. Then suddenly a few people decided to "fill the vacuum" with off-topic (check the unofficial logs: http://mniip.com/irc/log/?channel=~lua). I reached #freenode staff because there is no OP doing moderation in #lua, they told me staff has not time to micromanage IRC channels and my only chance was to try to reach the other channel operators. Got to reach MachinShin who banned: onr, one of the worst trolls that #lua had ever. Unfortunately some vacuum filler (not all of them) disagreed with MachinShin and started to troll me.

## How lua-support born
I reached #freenode staff again, but they told me that they can't override the operators, and that last 2 options were: 1) reach ventonegro, the founder of the channel, 2) fork and create my very own (which I did already). It looks like ventonegro has not connected for a long time so pick option 2.

The #lua IRC channel means a lot to me, so it was so nasty for me to leave the it, anyway... it is legit to leave and fork, so announcement #lua-support to the lua-l and added info about it to the wiki: http://lua-users.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=history&id=IrcChannel

## Reactions from #lua
What happened next is that *apparently* Marc Balmer, this very well known and respectable person:
http://lua-users.org/wiki/MarcBalmer
https://archive.fosdem.org/2013/schedule/speaker/marc_balmer/

Yes, it looks like the same person that is mentioned here: http://www.lua.org/thanks.html

Well... mbalmer joined #lua-support to monitor and to say "hello":

[11:20:11] --> mbalmer (~mbalmer@46.175.8.71) has joined #lua-support
[14:40:29] <mbalmer> develCuy, let the things develop a bit..
[15:05:58] <mbalmer> develCuy, you are full of shit, I think.
[15:06:01] <-- mbalmer (~mbalmer@46.175.8.71) has left #lua-support ("Leaving...")

And that same person with IP 46.175.8.xxx is the one that was part of the vandalism in the wiki: http://lua-users.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=history&id=IrcChannel (Hopefully others decided to add improvements and the current version looks quite better now)

## The question is...
How does it happened? How amazing people like mbalmer (and others that worth mention) can go wild and make this? Did they forgot about the basic principles of FOSS & netiquette and decided to troll me? I would like to think that mbalmer got his IRC account hacked by some troll or he was just drunk, but checking the logs his behaviour continued for several days! And not only him, you will find high profile nicknames trolling and citing my nickname: develCuy and #lua-support, for several days: http://mniip.com/irc/log/?channel=~lua (check from Jul 27 to Ago 7 and forward)

## Call for action to ventonegro
Ventonegro is the founder of #lua, he has the last word on defining the policies there since he is the founder. Whatever happened to #lua, I hope that the Lua community fix this, because I'm not the first nor the last victim of this bulling behaviour, and you should notice that there are actual kids (~8 years old!) joining #lua from the game boards, watching and learning from the old ones, unfortunately some are not a good example IMHO.

Sincerely,

--
Fernando Paredes García

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=develcuy

** Before printing  this message, please consider your commitment with the environment
** Antes de imprimir este mensaje  piensa en tu compromiso con el medio ambiente


From: John Belmonte <john <at> neggie.net>
Subject: Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.lua.general
Date: 2014-08-05 05:08:45 GMT (2 days, 22 hours and 37 minutes ago)

To the parties attempting to settle a dispute by continuously overwriting each other's edits on the IrcChannel wiki page:  please stop.

My suggestion is to choose an arbitrator, present your case (e.g. on the mailing list), and accept the outcome with some dignity.

--John


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Re: Call for action: Rescue #lua (was Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support)

Martin Schröder-2
2014-08-08 8:21 GMT+02:00 Fernando Paredes García <[hidden email]>:
> [11:20:11] --> mbalmer (~mbalmer@46.175.8.71) has joined #lua-support

> whois 46.175.8.71
% This is the RIPE Database query service.
% The objects are in RPSL format.
%
% The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions.
% See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf

% Note: this output has been filtered.
%       To receive output for a database update, use the "-B" flag.

% Information related to '46.175.8.0 - 46.175.8.255'

% No abuse contact registered for 46.175.8.0 - 46.175.8.255

inetnum:        46.175.8.0 - 46.175.8.255
netname:        MSYS
descr:          Micro Systems Marc Balmer
country:        CH
org:            ORG-MSMB1-RIPE
admin-c:        MSYS-RIPE
tech-c:         MSYS-RIPE
tech-c:         AO6-RIPE
status:         ASSIGNED PI
mnt-by:         RIPE-NCC-END-MNT
mnt-lower:      RIPE-NCC-END-MNT
mnt-by:         MSYS-MNT
mnt-routes:     MSYS-MNT
mnt-domains:    MSYS-MNT
mnt-domains:    IMPNET-MNT
source:         RIPE # Filtered

organisation:   ORG-MSMB1-RIPE
org-name:       Micro Systems Marc Balmer
org-type:       OTHER
address:        Landstrasse 66
address:        CH-5073 Gipf-Oberfrick
address:        Switzerland
phone:          +41 61 383 05 10
admin-c:        MSYS-RIPE
mnt-ref:        MSYS-MNT
mnt-by:         MSYS-MNT
source:         RIPE # Filtered

person:         Andre Oppermann
address:        Internet Business Solutions AG
address:        Hardstrasse 235
address:        CH-8005 Zurich
address:        Switzerland
phone:          +41 1 2 777 575
fax-no:         +41 1 2 777 577
nic-hdl:        AO6-RIPE
mnt-by:         CH-IBS-MNT
source:         RIPE # Filtered

person:         Marc Balmer
address:        Micro Systems Marc Balmer
address:        Landstrasse 66
address:        CH-5073 Gipf-Oberfrick
address:        Switzerland
phone:          +41 61 383 05 10
nic-hdl:        MSYS-RIPE
mnt-by:         MSYS-MNT
source:         RIPE # Filtered

% Information related to '46.175.8.0/24AS199178'

route:          46.175.8.0/24
descr:          MSys
descr:          Switzerland
origin:         AS199178
mnt-by:         MSYS-MNT
source:         RIPE # Filtered

% This query was served by the RIPE Database Query Service version 1.74.1 (DB-1)

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Re: Call for action: Rescue #lua (was Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support)

Alex Queiroz
In reply to this post by Fernando Paredes García
Hallo,

On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Fernando Paredes García
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ## Call for action to ventonegro
> Ventonegro is the founder of #lua, he has the last word on defining the policies there since he is the founder. Whatever happened to #lua, I hope that the Lua community fix this, because I'm not the first nor the last victim of this bulling behaviour, and you should notice that there are actual kids (~8 years old!) joining #lua from the game boards, watching and learning from the old ones, unfortunately some are not a good example IMHO.
>

Well, a little bit of histiory: The channel was already there before
me, but I used to be there all the time and therefore lhf recruited me
to help keep the channel running smoothly. Since I moved to CH three
years ago I have not been in IRC much. I gave superpowers to a couple
of people, though. I don't know if they are gone or just don't care
about this allegedly off-topic onslaught.

I guess I'll try to be around more.

Cheers,
--
-alex
http://unendli.ch/

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Re: Call for action: Rescue #lua (was Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support)

Christian Thaeter
In reply to this post by Fernando Paredes García
Am Fri, 08 Aug 2014 01:21:22 -0500
schrieb Fernando Paredes García <[hidden email]>:

> Dear Lua community,
>
> Let me elaborate about this.

Really this is going to be destructive/pointless .. when someone asks
for help in #lua he gets help. Otherwise there might be some
off-topic discussion, but IMO thats only a sign that there are
friendly people interacting together in a healthy community. Dividing
this rather small group will not do good for anyone (Of course this
this also counts for some people from #lua who seemingly become rude).

I am almost 20 Years on IRC and experience tells me that a strict ruled
channel 'on-topic' enforced never ever let to a welcoming friendly
atmosphere.

Could you guys please stop this fighting consider how to get together
again and just /ignore the trolls?

        Christian


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Re: Call for action: Rescue #lua (was Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support)

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
> Could you guys please stop this fighting consider how to get together
> again and just /ignore the trolls?

And please move this discussing out of lua-l before it gets ugly here too.
Thanks.

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Re: Call for action: Rescue #lua (was Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support)

Steven Degutis
+1 Luiz


On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 6:10 AM, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Could you guys please stop this fighting consider how to get together
> again and just /ignore the trolls?

And please move this discussing out of lua-l before it gets ugly here too.
Thanks.


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Re: ANN: New IRC channel #lua-support

David Demelier
In reply to this post by mniip

Le 28/07/2014 07:35, mniip a écrit :
On 07/28/2014 04:36 AM, Daurnimator wrote:
On 27 July 2014 16:32, Fernando Paredes García <[hidden email]> wrote:
A new channel has been created on the FreeNode IRC Server, #lua-support.

#lua-support is dedicated to handling support based questions for novice and pro alike.

*No off-topic conversations will be tolerated as this is a constructive environment to help further your lua scripting abilities.*

What is wrong with the well populated #lua ?
A fork from seems pointless...
I guess off-topic is exactly what's wrong. Although I don't really see any problem here. We're just filling the vacuum. It doesn't interfere with providing support to people.

+1.

When some user ask for help we are all attentive to the question and provide support.