[ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

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[ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Thomas Lauer-3
A quick one... the subject says it all. After fixing a couple small bugs
and some changes to the documentation I have now released a pre-alpha
version of Idle.

There is one important area of change to the language: there are three
more predefined metamethods, __next, __ipairs and __pairs, and three new
functions, rawnext(), rawipairs() and rawpairs(). These functions are
similar to next(), ipairs() and pairs(), but they will ignore any
metamethods.

This version is only available for Windows 2000 and later. Although a
Linux/Unix version would certainly be possible, there are currently no
plans to do such a version.

I will move to an alpha release during the next few weeks, including a
binding to SQLite 3 and a class/object system. Feedback as to (missing)
features, bugs and documentation glitches is welcome.

For details, documentation and downloads see http://idle.thomaslauer.com

-- 
cheers  thomasl

web : http://thomaslauer.com/start


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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Ketmar Dark-2
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:25 +0100
Thomas Lauer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This version is only available for Windows 2000 and later. Although a
> Linux/Unix version would certainly be possible, there are currently no
> plans to do such a version.
bad news... no *nix version ever?

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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Thomas Lauer-3
Ketmar Dark <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thomas Lauer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 
> > This version is only available for Windows 2000 and later. Although a
> > Linux/Unix version would certainly be possible, there are currently no
> > plans to do such a version.
> bad news... no *nix version ever?

Hey, Ketmar, for someone who's (very rightly, IMHO) championing the
cause of reading the fine manuals, you're a bit too fast here;-) Let me
repeat: there are CURRENTLY no plans to do such a version. The very fact
that I said ...currently... implies that there may be a *x version,
shrouded by the mists of future.

"Ever" is a word like "never": I never, ever use them.

-- 
cheers  thomasl

web : http://thomaslauer.com/start


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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Stephen Kellett
In reply to this post by Thomas Lauer-3
Thomas Lauer wrote:
A quick one... the subject says it all. After fixing a couple small bugs
and some changes to the documentation I have now released a pre-alpha
version of Idle.

Software Verification's Lua tools have been updated to support lua DLLs that are not named LuaNNN.dll (lua50.dll, lua51.dll, etc). We did this work to support a large well known media manipulation software vendor that uses Lua inside its product (but has renamed the DLL and made minor mods to the DLL).

A side effect of this work is that this means the Idle language is now supported by the Lua tools. As a result we have also added .idle filename filter support in the appropriate file dialogs etc.

So if you feel you need tools for Idle as well as for Lua, the Software Verification Lua tools will do the job for both.

	http://www.softwareverify.com/lua/index.html

Stephen

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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Michael Broughton
In reply to this post by Ketmar Dark-2
Uh, there is a *nix version... it's called Lua. Do a Google search. :D


Ketmar Dark wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:25 +0100
Thomas Lauer <[hidden email]> wrote:

This version is only available for Windows 2000 and later. Although a
Linux/Unix version would certainly be possible, there are currently no
plans to do such a version.
bad news... no *nix version ever?


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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Thomas Lauer-3
In reply to this post by Stephen Kellett
Stephen Kellett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> A side effect of this work is that this means the Idle language is now 
> supported by the Lua tools. As a result we have also added .idle 
> filename filter support in the appropriate file dialogs etc.
> 
> So if you feel you need tools for Idle as well as for Lua, the Software 
> Verification Lua tools will do the job for both.
> 
> 	http://www.softwareverify.com/lua/index.html

That's good to hear. I did try one of your tools a month or so ago and
it failed, even with the Idle library accordingly renamed. Then again,
that was with old versions of everything: I should definitely try again.

(However, as I wrote in an earlier message, the Idle runtime DLL does
most things pretty much like Lua does them, but there are also some
differences. So there's a small chance that something may go astray.)

-- 
cheers  thomasl

web : http://thomaslauer.com/start


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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Thomas Lauer-3
In reply to this post by Michael Broughton
Michael Broughton <[hidden email]> wrote:

<quoting repaired>

> Ketmar Dark wrote:
> > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:25 +0100
> > Thomas Lauer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> This version is only available for Windows 2000 and later. Although a
> >> Linux/Unix version would certainly be possible, there are currently no
> >> plans to do such a version.
> >>     
> > bad news... no *nix version ever?
>
> Uh, there is a *nix version... it's called Lua. Do a Google search. :D

While this specific statement is debatable, the general attitude nicely
illustrates why I won't do a *x version anytime soon. The average Linux
user tends to be more knowledgeable about the technical side of things
than the average Windows user. I daresay that a much bigger percentage
of Linux users knows how to use a C compiler or Perl than users on the
Windows side (most of whom wouldn't recognise a C compiler if it stared
them in the face).

Clearly, Linux users will more often than not be able to mix and match
these things in ways most Windows users simply won't. Put differently, I
know people who would love to work with a "real" scripting language such
as Perl or Python but for whom the idea of installing and getting to
grips with such a huge package seems a complete nightmare.

(BTW, that's also one of the reasons why I was and still am putting some
effort into what I hope will eventually be a smooth and nearly complete
documentation.)

Another observation to keep in mind is that almost 90% of non-robot hits
for idle.thomaslauer.com come from Windows-based machines, ~7% is *x
traffic and the rest is Macs and goodness knows what.

Take these two points together and it should be clear that doing a Linux
version is not exactly a high-priority task. While the code is (mostly)
written in a portable manner, that doesn't necessarily mean the whole
project would be easy to port. Especially given my utter lack of
experience with Linux system programming:->

-- 
cheers  thomasl

web : http://thomaslauer.com/start


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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Michael Broughton
You know, all you really have to do is release your source code. Perhaps someone will be nice enough to contribute a Makefile.


Thomas Lauer wrote:
While this specific statement is debatable, the general attitude nicely
illustrates why I won't do a *x version anytime soon. The average Linux
user tends to be more knowledgeable about the technical side of things
than the average Windows user. I daresay that a much bigger percentage
of Linux users knows how to use a C compiler or Perl than users on the
Windows side (most of whom wouldn't recognise a C compiler if it stared
them in the face).

Clearly, Linux users will more often than not be able to mix and match
these things in ways most Windows users simply won't. Put differently, I
know people who would love to work with a "real" scripting language such
as Perl or Python but for whom the idea of installing and getting to
grips with such a huge package seems a complete nightmare.

(BTW, that's also one of the reasons why I was and still am putting some
effort into what I hope will eventually be a smooth and nearly complete
documentation.)

Another observation to keep in mind is that almost 90% of non-robot hits
for idle.thomaslauer.com come from Windows-based machines, ~7% is *x
traffic and the rest is Macs and goodness knows what.

Take these two points together and it should be clear that doing a Linux
version is not exactly a high-priority task. While the code is (mostly)
written in a portable manner, that doesn't necessarily mean the whole
project would be easy to port. Especially given my utter lack of
experience with Linux system programming:->


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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Stephen Kellett
Michael Broughton wrote:
You know, all you really have to do is release your source code. Perhaps someone will be nice enough to contribute a Makefile.

I agree, we made some mods to Ruby to add some memory tracking extensions. We made a Windows binary available and source code for the changed files (1 file) and for the new files (2 files) for anyone either wanting to incorporate this into a future version of Ruby (I hope so) or build their own Linux/Mac version.

Also, given that Lua is open source and Idle is built on Lua I can imagine not releasing the source will generate a moderate amount of ill-will and releasing the source will generate more good will.

Stephen

http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html  free software with source
Object Media Limited, Software Consultancy

http://www.softwareverify.com
Software tools: C++ Delphi Java JavaScript Lua Perl PHP Python Ruby VB

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Re: [ANN] Idle pre-alpha released

Thomas Lauer-3
In reply to this post by Michael Broughton
Michael Broughton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You know, all you really have to do is release your source code. Perhaps 
> someone will be nice enough to contribute a Makefile.

Uh, there is a *nix version... it's called Lua. Do a Google search. :D

SCNR.

-- 
cheers  thomasl

web : http://thomaslauer.com/start