20 years of lua-l

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

20 years of lua-l

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
The Lua mailing list was created 20 years ago, on Feb 20th, 1997.
Over 125000 messages have been posted since then.

Traffic in lua-l has decreased in the last 5 years, after a steady
increase in the first 15 years:
        http://www.lua.org/lua-l-stats.html

Perhaps this reflects a maturity in the Lua community. Or perhaps it
reflects the existence of other channels for asking questions, such
as stackoverflow and pt.stackoverflow:
        http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/lua
        http://pt.stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/lua

The number of subscribers has remained stable near 2900 for the last few
years. (Apparently, Mailman was miscounting this number in 2014.)
        http://www.lua.org/lua-l-stats.html#subscribers

I still find it pleasantly surprising that, for a list of its size and
age, the signal-to-noise ratio remains quite high, mainly because of
those who generously share their expertise with the whole Lua community.

I trust we can keep lua-l friendly and welcoming, and full of good advice.
On behalf of the Lua team, I thank you all for joining and helping others.

What we said in the HOPL paper 10 years ago is still quite relevant today:

   We have been fortunate that the Lua list is very friendly and at the
   same time very technical. The list has become the focal point of the
   Lua community and it has been a source of motivation for improving Lua.

--lhf

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Petite Abeille

> On Feb 20, 2017, at 11:15 AM, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The Lua mailing list was created 20 years ago, on Feb 20th, 1997.

Congrats! And Happy Birthday :)


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Hisham
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
On 20 February 2017 at 07:15, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Lua mailing list was created 20 years ago, on Feb 20th, 1997.
> Over 125000 messages have been posted since then.

Congratulations for the milestone!

> Traffic in lua-l has decreased in the last 5 years, after a steady
> increase in the first 15 years:
>         http://www.lua.org/lua-l-stats.html
>
> Perhaps this reflects a maturity in the Lua community.

2012 was the year when LuaJIT got its own mailing list.

-- Hisham

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Lorenzo Donati-3
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
On 20/02/2017 11:15, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo wrote:
> The Lua mailing list was created 20 years ago, on Feb 20th, 1997.
[snip]

Happy Birthday!!!
>
>    We have been fortunate that the Lua list is very friendly and at the
>    same time very technical. The list has become the focal point of the
>    Lua community and it has been a source of motivation for improving Lua.
>

A nice place where to dwell!

A really sunny neighborhood on the In(f|t)ernet! :-)

> --lhf
>
>

Cheers!!!

-- Lorenzo

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Dibyendu Majumdar
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
On 20 February 2017 at 10:15, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Lua mailing list was created 20 years ago, on Feb 20th, 1997.
> Over 125000 messages have been posted since then.
>

Happy birthday!

I find the Lua list archive very well designed and a valuable resource.

Regards
Dibyendu

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
In reply to this post by Hisham
>> Traffic in lua-l has decreased in the last 5 years
> 2012 was the year when LuaJIT got its own mailing list.

Indeed. Here are the stats for the LuaJIT list:

        2012: 2073
        2013: 2310
        2014: 1861
        2015: 1518
        2016: 719
        2017: 54

It explains some loss of traffic in lua-l but not nearly all of it.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Rena
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:15 AM, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Lua mailing list was created 20 years ago, on Feb 20th, 1997.
Over 125000 messages have been posted since then.

Traffic in lua-l has decreased in the last 5 years, after a steady
increase in the first 15 years:
        http://www.lua.org/lua-l-stats.html

Perhaps this reflects a maturity in the Lua community. Or perhaps it
reflects the existence of other channels for asking questions, such
as stackoverflow and pt.stackoverflow:
        http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/lua
        http://pt.stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/lua

The number of subscribers has remained stable near 2900 for the last few
years. (Apparently, Mailman was miscounting this number in 2014.)
        http://www.lua.org/lua-l-stats.html#subscribers

I still find it pleasantly surprising that, for a list of its size and
age, the signal-to-noise ratio remains quite high, mainly because of
those who generously share their expertise with the whole Lua community.

I trust we can keep lua-l friendly and welcoming, and full of good advice.
On behalf of the Lua team, I thank you all for joining and helping others.

What we said in the HOPL paper 10 years ago is still quite relevant today:

   We have been fortunate that the Lua list is very friendly and at the
   same time very technical. The list has become the focal point of the
   Lua community and it has been a source of motivation for improving Lua.

--lhf


Congrats!

--
Sent from my Game Boy.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Hisham
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
On 20 February 2017 at 20:34, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>>> Traffic in lua-l has decreased in the last 5 years
>> 2012 was the year when LuaJIT got its own mailing list.
>
> Indeed. Here are the stats for the LuaJIT list:
>
>         2012:   2073
>         2013:   2310
>         2014:   1861
>         2015:   1518
>         2016:   719
>         2017:   54
>
> It explains some loss of traffic in lua-l but not nearly all of it.

Yeah, I gathered those stats too after I posted. The LuaJIT list was
never as active as lua-l (among the reasons I think there's the fact
that there's not much room for language design discussions there, and
also that they use the Github issue tracker for development/bug
discussions).

It's comforting to see that there hasn't been a proportional exodus in
the number of subscribers. But for those of us who subscribe to both
lists it is clear that some people who were active participants here
became more like lurkers and moved their activity there (conversely,
I'm more of a lurker there, I subscribe but I don't read it
regularly). When a group partitions in two, it's natural that the
overall amount of communication reduces: n talking among themselves +
m talking among themselves < n+m talking among themselves. The effect
of this unfortunate rift in the overall health of the community,
however, is hard to measure.

I do hope, however, that the dwindling numbers of the mailing list are
more due to a generational shift regarding email. I took the effort to
scrape some numbers from the Python mailing list as a comparison:

1999: 18986
2000: 43670
2001: 55614
2002: 57108
2003: 63897
2004: 56420
2005: 59929
2006: 60986
2007: 50492
2008: 50584
2009: 44835
2010: 32037
2011: 22333
2012: 19297
2013: 25366
2014: 19738
2015: 17925
2016: 16477
2017: 1595

Uploaded the graph here: http://i.imgur.com/evPUqUy.png

It seems the decline of mailing lists is a general trend, which
matches my perception, as we barely use the LuaRocks mailing list
anymore. (Looking at those numbers, I did remember that Python did
have its traumatic moment with Py3k/Python 3.0 in 2007-2008 — around
the time Rails was picking steam, IIRC — but it seems to have lived
through it).

Does anyone know if StackOverflow publishes activity stats for its
tags? I couldn't find it.

-- Hisham

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Dibyendu Majumdar
On 21 February 2017 at 00:26, Hisham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It seems the decline of mailing lists is a general trend, which
> matches my perception, as we barely use the LuaRocks mailing list
> anymore. (Looking at those numbers, I did remember that Python did
> have its traumatic moment with Py3k/Python 3.0 in 2007-2008 — around
> the time Rails was picking steam, IIRC — but it seems to have lived
> through it).
>

Could it also be that attention has shifted a lot towards phones, and
neither Lua nor Python are big (as far as I can see) in that space?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Charles Heywood
I feel like the shift in usage has to deal more with other methods of communication. There's now a Reddit, two IRC channels on Freenode, and probably another means of communicating. I know a /lot/ of people are using the IRC now.

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 6:36 PM Dibyendu Majumdar <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 21 February 2017 at 00:26, Hisham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It seems the decline of mailing lists is a general trend, which
> matches my perception, as we barely use the LuaRocks mailing list
> anymore. (Looking at those numbers, I did remember that Python did
> have its traumatic moment with Py3k/Python 3.0 in 2007-2008 — around
> the time Rails was picking steam, IIRC — but it seems to have lived
> through it).
>

Could it also be that attention has shifted a lot towards phones, and
neither Lua nor Python are big (as far as I can see) in that space?

--

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Dirk Laurie-2
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
2017-02-20 12:15 GMT+02:00 Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo <[hidden email]>:

> Traffic in lua-l has decreased in the last 5 years, after a steady
> increase in the first 15 years:

It seems to have taken a sharp upturn in the less than 30 hours since
you posted this remark, with the style of contributions suddenly quite
reminiscent of the good old days, too :-)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Martin
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
Gratz!

I respect you for keeping minimalistic HTML-independent style.

-- Martin

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 20 years of lua-l

Marc Balmer
In reply to this post by Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo
Congrats and keep the good work up!

What I like most about Lua:  All of it.